doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 800x GREATEST POWDER EVER FOR LOW PRESSURE LOAD?

Speaking of 'published' loads, our powder companies live in some strange alternate universe.

The 'lower' pressure loads they publish rely heavily on the flimsy 'Windjammer' wad and clones thereof. Usually in a Federal straight wall case. Can you say 'powder migration'?

It's a stupid concept. Recommending components that are mismatched like that just because they tested 5 of them under controlled conditions right from the loading bench to the pressure gun and didn't observe any inconsistency just defies common sense.

Let those rattle around in your pocket for a couple weeks and try them in cold weather and report back.

Many 'published' loads are physically either impossible to assemble with crimps that hold without adding extra filler, or they can't be made to fit without 100 pounds of wad pressure.

'Published' does not mean either 'good' or 'practical'.

They also think we want to run 7/8 oz. 12 gauge shells at 1250+ FPS. They totally misunderstand the concept of a 7/8 oz. load.

They need to scrap 75% of the 'published' garbage loads starting with all the ones that use wads for tapered hulls in straight wall cases. Dumb Dumb Dumb.

AND BRING BACK PB.

The first guy who applied theoretical knowledge to practical application became the first 'engineer'.

That's all they do. Some are way better at it than others.

Many seem to have a problem estimating 'real world' operating conditions for the stuff they design.

Every single thing designed and made by man has at one time or another failed. Sometimes spectacularly.

Credentials don't mean a lot, a legacy of success does.

King;
When the boat left I believe you were still standing on the Dock. First the subject was 800X not 700X. Recoil physics was obviously "Beyond" Gough Thomas AKA Garwoood else he would not have made the Utterly Foolish statements about them he did, doesn't matter what Sheepskin he had.

Whatever it is you want to load, there's a better powder than 800X. Period. One that burns clean, meters well, doesn't start the neighbors' dogs to barking, a powder that doesn't need excuses or qualifiers.

All I can say is I use 800-X in a Straight Walled hull with a Windjammer wad and in cold weather. I have never had an issue with powder migration or bloopers. Just my practical experience with them.

I like the load, but it sure seems to me you don't like any of those components. To each his own I guess.

To answer a question that may arise. I did cut open a couple of my loads at the end of the season (after bouncing around in my shell pocket) to see how they fared. I saw no appreciable powder migration and every thing was tight and proper with load stacking. Again, just my experience.

Best,

Greg

I'm glad that combo works for you, I'm also surprised it does.

Any and every wad other than a Federal style wad that I've used in a Federal hull has been blooper and/or dirt city.

Admittedly, I gave that practice up early on.

My opinion is that there's a reason Federal wads look the way they do, maybe that 'engineering' business again.

I use wads that were made for the hulls I use and tend to favor fast powders for light loads.

I am amazed at myself for sticking with old school Alliant powders for so long though. When their manufacturers induced shortage finally made me buy from the 'powder trust' I discovered Titewad and intend to never turn back.

Hey, I have to say that it is a dirty load, but that's what they make cleaning kits for. I clean my guns after every use, so no big deal for me.

Like I said, to each his own

Good Luck!

Greg

Well now . . . let's see what Thomas DID say about slow vs fast-burning powders. To summarize the facts of the tests conducted by IMI:

"They involved the firing of many thousands of cartridges by a team of nine experienced shots of varying build, shooting under a wide variety of conditions with guns of different types, weight and boring. The cartridges were all loaded to give the same velocity to the same shot charge, though by means of powders of various rates of burning. The shooters did not know what they were firing, but were merely required to give marks for recoil. They were unanimous in assigning the lowest recoil to the cartridges with the fastest-burning powder, the dynamical effect of which was checked throughout by electric accelerometers built into the stocks of the guns, and their conclusions have since been widely confirmed." Gough Thomas, "Shotguns and Cartridges for Game and Clays", p. 155.

That seems to be a pretty complete description of the test in question. I'm sure more thorough than a hillbilly from Tennessee or a jack pine savage from the North Woods of Wisconsin can do. But if Mr. Miller would care to conduct a test of his own--with witnesses, a group of experienced shooters, etc--I'm sure we'd all eagerly await the results.

But one question for our resident hillbilly: What difference does it make to a powder company whether they promote a fast-burning powder or a slow-burning powder? Both have their advantages. As noted here, the slow-burning powder produces a lower peak recoil, which some people may feel is advantageous. On the other hand, you use less of the fast-burning powder to produce the same velocity, which results in cost savings to the individual choosing that powder for reloading. So both--for different reasons--are going to have their fans. And powder companies all seem to offer a wide variety from which to choose, for whatever reason the reloader decides to make his selection.

And it probably should be noted that in Hatcher's formula for measuring recoil, the powder weight is multiplied by 1.75. So although it's far lighter than the shot charge, it's a more significant factor than just the weight of the powder compared to the weight of the shot.

I too am with Greg on this one. I think 800X powder is way overlooked. Put that load I mentioned at the beginning of the thread on paper and compare to any other load you want. That is a "magic" load that kills both clays and birds dead! Again, can anyone show me a powder that can load 28 thru 8 gauge consistently? Please show me one. PB and IMR 7625 were and still are great powders but they are no longer made. I think 800X is now the king!

At my local gun club today I shot skeet and I used 800X for 2 7/8 10 gauge loads in my Remington 1879 with Damascus barrels. 24.0gr with a Sp10 wad was spectacular! Then I shot 16.0gr in my Dryese side swing 16 gauge Damascus gun...a real pleasure. Lastly, I used 13.5gr in my 28 gauge SKB model 605 over/under. I shot 24 out of 25 with 10 gauge, 23 with the 16 gauge and 24 with the 28 gauge. All with 800X. I did not have time to shoot my 20 or 12 gauge guns. I will try 27 grains for my 8 gauge and report soon. Long live 800X!!