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Greg--Interesting that it works well in cold weather. And I know it gets cold where you live! Whenever I've been looking for a 1 1/8 oz 12ga pheasant load, low pressure, I've used one with Unique, Gold Medal hull and Fed primer, Federal 12S3 wad. Right off the Alliant website. About 1,000 psi hotter than yours, but also very reliable on cold weather pheasant hunts.

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Hey Col, never had any bloopers with this one in the cold. I do keep a hand warmer in my shell pockets and switch out the shells in the gun. Keeps the shells nice and warm. I switch out the shells in my gun about every 10 minutes or so. Seems like a bother, but it's really not.

Best,

Greg


Gregory J. Westberg
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It's not that low pressure loads are inherently dangerous, but that reduced charges of slow burning powders are best avoided in ALL applications.

Jim Legg who did quite a bit of target shooting with 'reduced' loads recommended the old Nitro 100 when it was still available and had published loads in the 5-6K PSI range.

The idea is a moderate peak pressure spike and a pressure curve that rapidly falls off when the load clears the chamber. The chamber being the strongest part of the barrel of course.


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I have been shooting this load for over 4 years. I shoot 97, 98, regularly at skeet every week. some of the members of my club have switched from American select, clays, etc. The windjammer wads seals beautifully in all hulls. I find the 8 petals on this wad to be very effective. I live in Utah and shoot this load in 10 degree weather with no problems. I hunt Hungarian partridge, pheasant, sharp-tail and sage grouse with this load. Plain and simple it just works. I have heard a lot of people claim they get "bloopers" in cold weather. I have never had one. By the way, if you put this load on a pattern board it is amazing! Yes... there are a few flakes of powder in the bores but this cleans up easily like any other powder. Bottom line, this powder works great in every gauge except .410!


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I would have to disagree and say that low pressure loads are definitely not dangerous. Sherman bell and Tom Armbrust I believe would have to disagree. A 5000 p.s.i. load is easy on the shoulder and your gunstock!


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Your Shoulder & the Gunstock does not Know or Care what the pressure is.
What gets to the stock & shoulder is how much shot you throw & how fast you throw it.

If you throw 1 1/8 oz @ 1200 fps no matter if the pressure is 5K or 10K you have done the same amount of work. "Average" pressure for the entire length of the barrel is pretty much the same. Perhaps not absolutely identical, but not enough difference to Get up on your Tricycle about.

DO NOT confuse peak pressure with total pressure. When you change burning rates of powder & wind up with identical ballistics you have simply re-arranged the pressure curve, not truly reduced it

The shot clears the barrel in a matter of micro-seconds & the gun will move in most cases no more than about 3/8 inch. The rest is from the inertia built in during that brief moment of time.

It Is a proven fact that low peak pressures can, & indeed have, given the results mentioned. You can believe it or not but it has been well documented. It occurs more often in Rifles than Shotguns, but can occur in shotguns as well.

Smokeless powders for the most part just don't burn well below a certain pressure level. When you get below that level then you are treading on Thin Ice.


Miller/TN
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Well, I guess I have not tread on thin ice yet. Some faster powders definitely have more "felt" recoil than 800X. I will try 27 and 28 grains of 800x in some 8 gauge loads and report how it performs at skeet and sporting clays. I think this powder is way over looked by reloaders. Yes, it is an "old school" powder but it outperforms many of the more modern powders by a long way! If someone knows of another powder that can be used in 28 gauge to 8 gauge please let me know. Thank you for your comments.


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Powder is Not Gauge specific, it is load density specific. Load density = the weight of shot lifted per Sq In of bore area. Considering nominal sizes a 28 has a bore diameter of .550" & an 8 gauge a diameter of .835". As the area of a circle is proportional to the Sq of their diameters an 8 gauge has 2.3 times the area of a 28. "IF" you loaded the 28 with 3/4 oz & the 8 with 1 3/4 oz they would use the same powder. All other gauges would have a proportional load for that powder. You could even load the .410 with it if you dropped the shot load in proportion to that little bitty hole. You would have to go down to between 3/8 & 7/16 oz in the .410. Nothing magical at all about it just fairly simple math. The same can be done with any powder, different powders are of course suitable for different load densities.

By dropping the charge weight & loading on the Low Velocity principal a faster powder can be used than would normally be used for that shot weight.


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Originally Posted By: 2-piper
Your Shoulder & the Gunstock does not Know or Care what the pressure is.
What gets to the stock & shoulder is how much shot you throw & how fast you throw it.



There's the answer where pressure and recoil are concerned. There is no direct relationship between pressure and recoil. So as far as recoil that can be measured goes, the focus is only on shot charge and velocity. (Actually, on the total ejecta--which also includes powder and wad. But because neither of those weighs much in comparison to the shot, they're only a minor consideration.)

As far as what one FEELS . . . there you get into an area that can't really be measured. But blind tests conducted with British shotshells and reported by the late British shotgun guru Gough Thomas showed that a team of shooters " . . . unanimously voted that the variety giving the least sensible (felt) recoil were those that, unknown to them, had been loaded with the fastest-burning powder."

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"As far as what one FEELS . . . there you get into an area that can't really be measured. But blind tests conducted with British shotshells and reported by the late British shotgun guru Gough Thomas showed that a team of shooters " . . . unanimously voted that the variety giving the least sensible (felt) recoil were those that, unknown to them, had been loaded with the fastest-burning powder."


Which is the opposite of the thoughts of every single trapshooter I used to shoot with years ago. They loaded Green Dot and PB to 'spread the recoil out over time'. Push vs. sharp kick.

I read Garwood 20 years later and just shook my head. His dissertation on tiny headspace variations making enormous differences in felt recoil is rich too.

He may have been an engineer, but his train was off the rails.



"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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