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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,740 Likes: 97 |
looking for published data for various 12 gauge black powder loads...
as i recall, 1000 fps is about what one can expect out of 30" barrels, regardless of load?
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 388 Likes: 4 |
Huh?
You can match just about any velocity with 3F black powder that you can achieve with almost any smokeless shotgun powder. Sherman Bell has published several. Just by looking at the 10 gauge loads listed on the Parker forum there are heavier (1 1/4 oz) loads of around 1300 fps.
You could easily achieve even higher velocities (if you felt the need to) with lighter shot loads using the same powder charges.
In his series of articles he did 12 gauge testing as well, but I am not about to rifle through old articles to find them at the moment. Sherman Bell did point out though that modern black powder shooters are much too conservative in their loads. Using stout charges of 3F "sporting" powder such as Swiss, more closely matched the powders and loads 19th century shot gunners were using.
It's not for lacking velocity as to why black powder fell out of favor.
“I left long before daylight, alone but not lonely.”~Gordon Macquarrie
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Supposedly the "Drams Equivalent" markings we still see on many shotshell boxes were based on using an amount of smokeless that would give a velocity equal to that amount of Black.
I wasn't around 125 years ago but some say that modern Black Powder is not the equal to what it was back then. Supposedly Black Powder peaked in its strength & effestiveness in the late 1800's & has gone in decline since.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,436 Likes: 34 |
This is from an old article on blackpowder shotgun shells: Velocity. Shot velocity is about 1000-1300 feet per second; same as modern loads and the same as it has been for the last two hundred years. There is just no point in driving small shot much faster than the speed of sound because it will just slow right back down again. It's not called the 'sound barrier' for nothing. http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.htmlMidway used to carry Goex Black Dawge factory loaded shells in 12ga at 1050fps, but those appear to be discontinued.
Last edited by Replacement; 08/15/18 10:21 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,436 Likes: 34 |
this place sells BP loads, I have a few boxes of their stuff, but i don't think they publish velocities.
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 593
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 593 |
Now this is more like it. The reference to dram equivalent says it all.
On another forum I got howled down & made to appear as a dangerous idiot for claiming 1250 fps with 7/8 oz of shot is easily achievable from 12g black powder cartridges, or even a muzzle loader.
Their opinion was that after 1000 fps the pressure was too high & you start to push chit uphill with a pointy stick.
Just listen for when the report starts to go from whoomph to crack. O.M
Last edited by moses; 08/16/18 05:42 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,035 Likes: 47
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,035 Likes: 47 |
How can this be lost knowledge?
The literature is replete with black powder information.
It's difficult to believe that modern production black is in any way inferior to what was available pre-smokeless.
The chemistry is still the same, certainly we can still get the fuels to fully react with the oxidizer.
I would think that with modern chemical analysis the charcoal part (which is the critical part) could be much better controlled today than then.
Personally, I cook steaks with charcoal and shoot with nitro.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
looking for published data for various 12 gauge black powder loads...
as i recall, 1000 fps is about what one can expect out of 30" barrels, regardless of load? Black powder and blow torches don't go good together Edward....
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 388 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 388 Likes: 4 |
It's difficult to believe that modern production black is in any way inferior to what was available pre-smokeless.
Unfortunately that is just not the case, well at least to a large extent. Several individuals (Sherman Bell, Ross Seyfried, and others) have done extensive testing with modern black powders and have found them to be severely lacking to what was available to shooters in the 19th century. Even without obviously having original blackpowder to test, what they do have is the documented original loads which were used, specifically for double rifles, where the type and amount of powder is extremely critical for regulation. While blackpowder my seem simple, the composition, source, and quality of it's three ingredients can widely vary between makers today.
“I left long before daylight, alone but not lonely.”~Gordon Macquarrie
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