doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com L C Smith. Field Grade.

And what,did these posts from james-i and Gregory have to do with L.C. Smith shotguns?

Answer: Exactly nothing.

But it does show that both are too dumb or too dishonest to count. I had exactly 13 posts in this thread. 3 were perfectly on topic and related to L.C. Smith shotguns and Dewey Vicknair, a fine gunsmith. One was a response to the guys who seemed more put-off by RGD Dave and his excessive enthusiasm for Else's than they are about anti-gun Trolls who infest this site.

The other 9 were responses to King and Replacement. I know it is unsporting of me to respond when people insult me or flat out lie. And I think we also know that Gregory and old colonel would never have uttered a word if their wormy friends went off-topic and trashed me, and I did not respond.

But they actually think they are operating from some moral high ground. I've scraped better stuff off my boot soles after walking through a kennel.

"I'll be getting flamed here soon, oh well!"

What did I tell you! Never fails.

Why even start? Its quite obvious Keith is right on the money and justified in what he is doing. You contributed nothing to the thread, but obviously felt compelled to be the victim. You might fool some, but others see what is going on here.

I see, another Keith-Aid, I mean Kool-Aid drinker comes to light.

"Because LeRoy Hunter, older brother of the Hunter Arms Brothers, left Hunter Arms/L.C. Smith to start the Ithaca gun company, with some other Hunter Arms employees, he becoming a major partner in the Ithaca gun company. LeRoy was permitted to use an altered for Boxlock, Brown Rotary Bolt, in some of his early Ithaca/LeFever double guns. Some very serious engineering in it's own right. The LeFever/Ithaca gun below has that Brown Rotary Bolt. LeRoy never stayed around long enough to incorporate the LeFever design, allowing LeFever/Ithaca guns to be both ejector and extractor at the flip of a switch. Some of the old Ithaca employees told Bill Brophy that the Ithaca/LeFever engineering plans do exist, I have never seen them however"

Quote from Dave/Ryman Dog guy/ L C Smith man.

It is interesting to hear of LeRoy Hunter . I had never heard of him before. I am sure Walt Snyder will be interested in Dave's version of Ithaca Gun Co. history.

The quote from Dave/Ryman Dog Guy is totally incorrect!! None of it has a grain of true fact within it.

"Because LeRoy Hunter, older brother of the Hunter Arms Brothers, left Hunter Arms/L.C. Smith to start the Ithaca gun company, with some other Hunter Arms employees"

He is way way off. It was Leroy Smith, older brother of Lyman C. Smith who left the L.C. Smith Gun Company along with his brother-in-law George Livermore and W.H. Baker and a few others in 1880. I believe it was 1883 when they founded the Ithaca Gun Co.

Since we're vetting truthfulness here, would anyone care to comment upon the veracity of this one?



Or how about this?



And which is more harmful to us... Dave's wild stories, or King's anti-2nd Amendment propaganda?

Propaganda often rises from taking one side of an issue, in this case of the enduring national debate of meaning of the Second Amendment.

Mentioning parts of the irrefutable historical record, pros and cons of amendment interpretation, cannot be propaganda if it is accurate.

The US is still wrangling over guns and the amendment is interpreted at all levels of governance as voters please.

The ultimate arbiter of the Constitution is the U.S. Supreme Court King. You have repeatedly been in denial of the written words of the Framers, and you have also been in denial about the 2008 Heller vs. Washington decision and the 2010 McDonald vs. Chicago decision.

The debate about the Original Intent of the Framers concerning the Individual Right to keep and Bear Arms is over, except in the mind of our anti-2nd Amendment Troll, King Brown. Your relentless propaganda and attempts to pervert the truth will be your legacy here.

�This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty...The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest possible limits...Wherever standing armies are kept up and [when] the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.�
St. George Tucker

�The rights of conscience, of bearing arms, of changing the government, are declared to be inherent in the people.�
Fisher Ames

�What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.�
Thomas Jefferson

�Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.�

Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria

�A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.�
Thomas Jefferson

�One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them.�
Thomas Jefferson

�No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms...�
Thomas Jefferson

�The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people...that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.�
Thomas Jefferson

�Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.�
Thomas Jefferson

�Americans have the right and advantage of being armed ― unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.�
James Madison

�The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.�
James Madison

�From the east to the west blow the trumpet to arms! Through the land let the sound of it flee; Let the far and the near all unite, with a cheer, In defense of our Liberty Tree.�
Thomas Paine

�Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.�
Patrick Henry

�The militia is our ultimate safety. We can have no security without it.�
Patrick Henry

�Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?�
Patrick Henry

�I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials.�
George Mason

�[W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man � who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually, by totally disusing and neglecting the militia.�
George Mason

�Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American...The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.�
Tench Coxe

�As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.�
Tench Coxe

�The militia, who are in fact the effective part of the people at large, will render many troops quite unnecessary. They will form a powerful check upon the regular troops, and will generally be sufficient to over-awe them.�
Tench Coxe

�Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.�
Noah Webster

�Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defence of the country, the over-throw of tyranny, or in private self-defense.�
John Adams

�The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.�
Alexander Hamilton

�The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.�
Joseph Story

�To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them.�
Richard Henry Lee

�Free men have arms; slaves do not.�
William Blackstone

�The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to Congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both.�
William Rawle

�Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? It is feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.�
Tench Coxe

�If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I never would lay down my arms � never � never � never!�
William Pitt

�[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them.�
Zacharia Johnson

�A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms.�
Richard Henry Lee

�Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.�
Thomas Paine

�Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in our possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?�
Patrick Henry

�The ultimate authority...resides in the people alone...The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition.�
James Madison

�The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace both from the enormous expenses with which they are attended and the facile means which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers to subvert the government or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers and will generally even if these are successful the first instance enable the people to resist and triumph over them.�
Justice Joseph Story