doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com L C Smith. Field Grade.

Free education, for those who think the Smith gun is the best:

http://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot.com/2016/01/an-unbiased-look-at-design-of-american.html

SRH

Stan,

I want you to take a good look at the Best J.P Sauer double guns, that same stock fit has never been told to have excessive cracking. Understand the engineering design is almost identical to the L.C. Smith. You do not see a lot of their stocks cracking because they only made less than 1/2 the guns that L.C. Smith/Hunter Arms produced.

All wood cracks at a certain percentage, no matter the gun maker. The more guns produced the more crack stocks you see. Hunter Arms produced more guns than any other American Gun maker, so naturally you see more cracked stocks.

I own many L.C. Smith double guns, most are all pre 13 guns, none have cracked stocks. The design of the gun has nothing to due with your stock cracking, either you oiled & stored the gun incorrectly, or the wood failed on it's own, because it was a faulty piece of hard wood, which Hunter Arms could not have seen during manufacturing.

By the way Nick is absolutely correct in his assessment, you just do not want to accept what he told you, which is your purgative. Foolish as it maybe.

I have owned many different shotguns still own many of them, from Fox to Remington to Brownings to LeFever's to Savage to J.P Sauers, to Winchester to Boss, to original H&R Hammer Guns. None match the over all quality engineering of the L.C. Smith, although some do have the altered Brown Rotary Bolt.

Stan you also put way to much stock in Vicknair's judgement, better you should listen to Master Gun Maker Nick Makinson, who actually knows L.C. Smith/Hunter Arms Guns. There are many people like yourself who have flawed judgement where gun make is concerned.

RGD/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Anyone who thinks an L C Smith is "Engineered" better than a Lefever obviously has not much engineering experience.
Superior points of the Lefever are too numerous to mention. I will mention that I have one totally trash H grade Lefever "Parts Gun" that was obviously rode hard & put away wet as they say & saw much abuse. Amazingly you can totally remove it ball hinge pin & the barrels still snug up tightly to the breech from only the Lefever patented square shouldered Doll's Head. A properly fitted Brown's rotary bolt would of course do the same thing, but no better & not one in a thousand of the rotaries are properly fitted. Most of them only bear in keeping the gun closed which the simple wedge of a Baker or Stevens will do quite nicely & they don't blow open.

All that said "IF" I had an L C Smith which needed work & my Gunsmith refused to work on it Just Because it was a Smith, I'd find a different Smith.

Smith, Lefever, Parker, Ithaca, Fox, etc. Find an example that is in good operating condition, a hundred or so years old and I'll guess that you will cease to exist before it does, making this whole which is best argument a moot point. At least, to me. I have two old Parkers, each over 100 years old. My prized bird guns but I know that they will outlive me as Dave's Elsies will outlive him so who cares about any of this? Your kids probably don't care about your old relics except for the money they may bring. Your guns don't have to be the best. Only good enough for the rest of your life. This argument will undoubtedly continue so I will end with this: Enjoy what you have for your own reasons. Let others do the same.

Keith and Adder adder, it is these kinds of comments that will win RGD few friends. Supporting the NRA isn't the only measure of a man. It's not a discussion of which is better or a statement of pride in one's own guns. It is the condescension that comes with RGD's comments that is hard to take.

Remember, the comments I highlighted were directed at Stan. Wholly inappropriate.

I'll be his friend, if he comes to terms and admits PARKER BROS. is the greatest American gun ever made!

I know what Dave is like and Have viewed his posts for many years. You're not going to fix him. If you or the others want to try, be my guest.

Amen.

Purgative, eh Dave?

SRH

There are a couple of guys on here who would benefit from a good purgative.

2 piper,

Lefever Guns are great American Boxlock double guns, most are not Sidelock double guns. That being said, they are great engineering gun design. One great design LeFever invented, and was never incorporated by L.C. Smith, is the LeFever engineering that allows some of his high grade double guns to be both an extractor and ejector gun, with a simple switch on the Breech. Simply a great piece of gun design engineering.

His locking system for his Boxlock double gun has to be adjusted with his own engineering principle, to keep the gun perfect as it wears. Not a bad engineering design, however the Hunter Arms, Brown Rotary Bolt needs no adjustment as it wears, in fact the fit gets even better as the gun wears, it's the reason LeRoy Hunter used it at Ithaca, and phased out the original LeFever lock up Engineering.

I like and own LeFever guns, I own a one of a kind LeFever/Ithaca 12 Gauge built on a 16 Gauge frame, it is just murder on Grouse, Pheasants and Ducks. Bill Brophy owned a very similar gun, his comment one night was that Hunter Arms must have been real glad that Uncle Dan decided to build Boxlock double guns. LeFever was in fact that good as a gun builder. His talents were just incredible as a Gun Designer/ Builder. As a person however Uncled Dan was very hard to deal with, some say, it was because he was a perfectionist engineer/gun designer.

RARiddell,
The Parker Brothers Boxlock gun designs were so weak compared to LeFevers engineering, they can not even be compared. Popularity has nothing to due with engineering gun design. Parker guns are nice little Boxlock double guns that have a great following however. I like them myself. Learned to Grouse hunt with my Grandfather's Parker 28 Gauge DHE. One Sweet little bird gun, no doubt about it.

RGD/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Because LeRoy Hunter, older brother of the Hunter Arms Brothers, left Hunter Arms/L.C. Smith to start the Ithaca gun company, with some other Hunter Arms employees, he becoming a major partner in the Ithaca gun company. LeRoy was permitted to use an altered for Boxlock, Brown Rotary Bolt, in some of his early Ithaca/LeFever double guns. Some very serious engineering in it's own right. The LeFever/Ithaca gun below has that Brown Rotary Bolt. LeRoy never stayed around long enough to incorporate the LeFever design, allowing LeFever/Ithaca guns to be both ejector and extractor at the flip of a switch. Some of the old Ithaca employees told Bill Brophy that the Ithaca/LeFever engineering plans do exist, I have never seen them however.

Alder,
You can not fix what is not broken. I enjoy what I like and respect what others like also, from guns to dogs to Fly Fishing Rods. I like good conversation however I will not be personally insulted because of my beliefs. If insulted personally do not expect me to back down, I love President Trump because he is the same way.

canvasback,
You and Stan seem to believe you can insult another member and nothing will happen, rest assured in my case if you do not stick to the subject and attack me personally in any way, I will give it back to you in spades. I have been rudely politically incorrect to people who insult the US Constitution and the NRA or myself, all my life. If you do these things I never worry one little bit, about making you my friend.