doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com G&H Winchester 54 ?

I am looking at a Winchester model 54. serial number 34048A. I understand that his rifle was made in 1930. It is not marked Griffen and Howe but am told it was made prior to G&H putting on thier own serial numbers and marking the barrel. It is for sale out of a very reputable shop.
Looking on line at G&H 54�s the stock and quality of work looks the same. The scope is a Carl Zeiss Zeilklien 22mm scope mounted with G&H ( patent pending) side mount. Also has original peep sight. Horn forend with metal grip cap.it has a vintage Hawkins leather faced pad ( leather all but worn away) very nice condition in 30 gov 06. Bluing is original with original wood finish.
I have looked on line at G&H web site but do not see this serial number. Is there any makings that I can look for to determine if this rifle was made by G&H or another custom gun maker?
I will try to post pictures tomorrow night.
In the meantime any information is appreciated.

34048A is the Winchester serial number on the action. If the action was made in 1930, G&H couldn�t have reworked it any earlier than that and by 1930 they were settled into keeping very good records. They were up to about 1000 in their own serial number book.

Is the barrel marked �Winchester�? If so, the rifle was likely only restocked by G&H. If not a full custom build (rebarrel, etc) they were typically not marked with a G&H number. There are rifles that were rebarrelled by them that are marked �rebarrelled by G&H�, but have no serial number.

It�s a complicated story with all kinds of exceptions, but make no mistake by 1930 G&H were numbering their guns

Would there be any value added for a 54 restocked by G&H.? Clearly has a G&H quick release system and the Zeiss scope.

Pretty sure its not a G&H but still a nice older rifle.

Yes it is! And a nice rack...

Thanks the rack is from an elk I shot in AZ with my bow about 20 years ago.

Is there a recommended Forum I might try where I can post some pictures to gain more information on my 54? My guess is there is still a vast amount of avalible members right here if it is read by these members. I really would appreciate any information. PM me if you prefer.
I understand no factory records remain on 54�s.
I noticed there is no dove tail for a rear sight. There is a barrel band of some sort under the front sling swivel stud.
I will pull the stock today to see if ai can find any markings. I read that in 1930 Winchester would do almost any upgrade to help sales due to the Depression. . Could this be factory work?
More pictures to be added later

Good quality work. Neidner?

Looks more like SR Griffin to me. How about a picture of where the checkering meets the rear part of the trigger guard?

G&H mount welded on and machined.

Welded and machined? I can see the screws and pins but no evidence of welding. Looks for all the world like a typical G&H attachment protocol.

It sure looks welded and machined to me. I will double check.

Gary D. is correct.

G&H attached the bases with tapered pins & screws then dressed them down flush w/the outside of the base & on the inside of the action rail.

They did such a nice job you need to look very closely to see where the pins & screws are but in your photo of the inside of the action rail you can faintly see them & usually you can also see them on the side of the base if you get light on it @ the correct angle because the pins & screws take the bluing a bit differently than the base.

On many of G&H bases installed outside of the G&H shop the screw heads are not dressed down & are visible.

Thanks guys I was not aware of this. I have learned another bit of information on this rifle.
Any additional information is greatly appreciated.

I don't know who did the stock, but the sidemount was installed with the same kind of care and craftmanship that Griffin and Howe did.

Thank you for the feedback.

I agree with Gary D, it is my understanding they were mounted with 2 screws and 2 tapered pins. The pins were finished off flush, after having been tightly driven in. From previous postings here, I think on some the screw heads were finished off flush as well.
Mike

My early G&H side mounts show no sign of welding, only well treated pins and screws, installed flush and nearly invisibly finished.

Sounds like what I have is not welded. Just a good fit.

Any thoughts on the markings?

Ones I have looked at, that were mounted by G&H, had the base soft-soldered on with taper pins and large head screws. The heads and pins were also soldered in place and all this was dressed down and then rust blued. Then the screws and taper pins were all but invisible. Generally the screws and pins could be seen inside in the broached lug ways, as these surfaces were polished bright after blue.
That is a nice looking rifle.

A close-up of the front ramp would pretty much tell if G&H did the work, as most used a ramp of their own mfg. I am sure there were exceptions, but...

Here are two pictures

This looks like a Sedgley ramp to me. Also, the barrel band mounting for the swivel base is what Sedgley routinely did.

I would really like to see some pictures of other forum members 54�s. Especially G&H, Sedgley and others.

I have a M54 22 Hornet upgraded by G&H with a cheekpiece, scope mount, grip cap, and horn forearm tip. If I can prevail on some one here to post pictures, I'll forward them to him.

Bill PM sent with my email address. I can post the pictures.

Just for clarification the last pictures are of Bill�s Rifle that I postd for him.

I suggested pictures, so my comments are that the G&H rifles I have seen had their own mfg ramp, and the junction of the ramp to the barrel band was not a radius cut, but rather close to a 90 degree. The ramp portion was slightly radiused and stippled using a small round point punch, with a border. It looks like this one meets the band in a radius, from what I see. But a very nice rifle.

Dennis, you're right about the sights that G&H installed as their own. My rifle has only been remodeled by them, not built from the ground up. What they did here is rework the factory ramp and fit it with their signature hood. When they fitted the cheekpiece, they didn't just apply it over the existing contours. They inletted it into the comb of the factory stock. When I bought this rifle, the owner said he'd never noticed the cheekpiece had been added until he happened to spot the seam at the comb as he was packing the rifle for shipment. In his books Michael Petrov talks about these kinds of jobs that G&H took on during the depression, often with '03 Springfield Sporters.

I posted earlier about having seen M54s years ago that had M70 style bolt handes. I noticed just today that this rifle and my other M54 Hornet both have receivers that are factory cut for the M70 bolt. The stocks are not cut. Evidently the factory anticipated a need for bolt handles that would clear a scope even though they didn't make the move to the handle itself. I hope there are collectors here who can comment.

I am bringing this to the top again hopes i might gain some additional knowlege on my rifle. I did email Paul Chapman from G&H and recieved a nice response.

The gun isn�t G&H as there are minor differences in the styling. It appears well done and a period custom rifle but I don�t recognize who the builder is.

Any additional feedback is appreciated.

I think your rifle was stocked by Sedgley. The front sight is definitely theirs. The checkering style and pattern are like their deluxe grade, and the stock profile says Sedgley to me. Perhaps Dan could offer an opinion. If anyone is qualified to identify Sedgley work, he's the man.

Thank you. I will wait to see if Dan or others reply. I have looked on line and I could not find an example of a model 54 made by Sedgley.
I did see a large number of other examples and definity see the similarities compared to my rifle.

I've been gone and just got back home. I agree with Bill that the checkering patterns look like Sedgley deluxe type but the cheek piece is not typical deluxe but I do think I have a Sedgley with a similar cheek piece. I have some Sedgley check piece photos if I can find them.
But the best I can help with is that Sedgley offered the following cusom work. "New stock for Krag, Springfield and Model 54 Winchester rifles, standard grade, with butt plate, pistol grip cap, sling swivels (regular type), and barrel band ...$27.50. This from a 1939 catalog.
So it could very well be stocked by Sedgley as I doubt they would have marked the barrel with their name.
Dan

Dan I will post a few additioal pictures of the cheek piece tomorrow.

Thanks for your feedback.