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4 members (ClapperZapper, SKB, 2 invisible),
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,715 Likes: 415
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,715 Likes: 415 |
SOO... as a civilization we forge ahead with 'progress' - new scientific discoveries and developments. Then we belatedly discover the law of unintended consequences. By the time this problem has been identified and 'science' has been developed to illustrate the threat, the industry that the new development has spawned is heavily invested in production and distribution and lobby against any change.
This is clearly a formula for assured, long term disaster. I m not a political person - not on purpose, anyway - but this is clearly a political problem, and our political system is broken. That is as succinct an analysis as anyone could offer. And pretty depressing. Garrett Hardin sketched out the general outline of the issues and now we see the inevitable consequences.
_________ BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/qclHjMQ.jpg)
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,018 Likes: 50
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,018 Likes: 50 |
SOO... as a civilization we forge ahead with 'progress' - new scientific discoveries and developments. Then we belatedly discover the law of unintended consequences. By the time this problem has been identified and 'science' has been developed to illustrate the threat, the industry that the new development has spawned is heavily invested in production and distribution and lobby against any change.
This is clearly a formula for assured, long term disaster. I m not a political person - not on purpose, anyway - but this is clearly a political problem, and our political system is broken. I regret I must agree the the current political system is operating badly. The system is good, but the people are what is becoming more broken every day. Our society no longer has relatively universal values and demigods from all sides are playing short term selfish games to twist things in order to win. Society is being broken down into tribes. Civility is dead. Our representative Democracy requires educated thinking citizens who use reason not emotion and believe in the values of our constitution. I am not sure we have enough of those citizens left.
Last edited by old colonel; 06/26/18 09:09 PM. Reason: Additional lines
Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,154 Likes: 1152
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,154 Likes: 1152 |
So, what is the answer? Let people starve? Farmers do one thing. They feed and clothe the world. Take enough farmland out of production to put back all the little patches, layout fields and hedgerows and you take millions of acres out of production. Not all those acres are marginal land, either. Most marginal land isn't growing crops, now. A large portion of it is in pine trees. Why?, to make paper for the worlds population. Take all pesticides away and immediately, in one year, there would be world shortages of food, feed stuffs and cotton. So, what is the answer?
Don't answer with your mouths full, now.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402 |
A huge portion of the corn we grow goes in our gas tanks, over 1/3 actually. A whole bunch of the land growing corn in the mid-west is only doing so because of the ethanol program and the changes to the CRP program. We were eating just fine 90's, the bird population was a hell of lot better too.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
A large portion of the south is pine for paper because years back the paper/pulp wood mills got ran out of Canada because of the environmental hazards they caused so they moved south to ruin our part of north America.
Alot of people will defend the use of herbicides...but any farmer knows the concoction of mixed herbicides in the spray tank is mind boggling.
Tell these guys some of the recipes Stan.
I doubt any studies have been done on the combined witches brew required to keep farmers fields weed free.
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Posts: 13,154 Likes: 1152
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,154 Likes: 1152 |
So, which do you want to give up first, your low priced beef, pork and chicken............or your $2.69/gal. gas. Cut the amount of corn we produce back to what we produced in the '90s, with the increase in population since then, and the increase in the number of cars and trucks, and guess what will happen. Rioting in the streets. It'd make 2nd Amendment rights take a backseat.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Take the government out of farming and I'm betting the farmer will do just fine.
Sad thing is the modern farmer is government/chemical dependant.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,154 Likes: 1152
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,154 Likes: 1152 |
I agree, but it will never happen and you darn well know it. Food is too powerful a weapon. Furthermore, this is about pesticides, not government, and how will the consumer fare when food triples in price, and they can't buy cotton clothes because when cotton gets too high the mills all switch to synthetics?
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,154 Likes: 1152
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,154 Likes: 1152 |
A large portion of the south is pine for paper because years back the paper/pulp wood mills got ran out of Canada because of the environmental hazards they caused so they moved south to ruin our part of north America.
Alot of people will defend the use of herbicides...but any farmer knows the concoction of mixed herbicides in the spray tank is mind boggling.
Tell these guys some of the recipes Stan.
I doubt any studies have been done on the combined witches brew required to keep farmers fields weed free. We do not use any tank mix that is not tested and labeled for legal use. We can't afford to, because many of the untried tank mixes are not compatible, or will cause injury to the crop itself. When I do use a tank mix it is one herbicide that is active on broad leaves and another that is active on grasses. The idea that you can pile all kinds of stuff in the tank together is ludicrous. Dummies who try that don't stay in business long. SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402 |
We exporting huge amounts of oil currently and frack more than enough to meet our needs and that of others. We do not need ethanol to meet fuel needs, We have ethanol because farmers demand it through lobby groups. I'll take more CRP and slightly higher gas prices. The price of Chicken and Beef are of little concern to me as 80% plus of the meat I consume I shoot myself. The ethanol program is huge welfare program and a terrible use of land in addition to putting an incredible amount of nitrates in to the Gulf and increasing the dead zone there. Nothing more than a subsidy for poor environmental practices, not to mention it makes my truck run like crap.
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