doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com For Geo.

Industrial duty cleaning, screws timed (my tool box may be deeper than the one in your shop? ) hanging out in an almost new Airways case, that has enough room for a 3" stock extension, should I ever finish growing up. Or, if I find a spare set of 28" tubes. Or, need one more spot for dry socks, more likely than the other two by far.
I have a date with the pattern board and a skeet field this weekend.

Thanks.





Best,
Ted

That looks good Ted, really good. Have fun on its shake down run.

Thanks, Craig.

Best,
Ted

Looks like a happy landing in a nice new home. Those were two great guns involved that swap. Gil

Nice game gun. All is needed is light weight airline approved Americase to store it in during travels.

Ted,
Is it my imagination or the way I am looking at this picture, but is that a really short stock on that piece???

The Browning looks good in its new kennel. Shoot it in good health my friend...Geo

Perry I think the gun's just in a case made to accommodate a longer gun. The stock is original to a 14 1/4th LOP ending in a checkered butt...Geo

PJ,
Like this?





This is a Knouf & Knouf aluminum case, that I bought when I visited France with an R10 Darne that needed to be hauled around. It is NOT high security (I believe it was built on an Indian reservation in Oregon) and the company seems to be long gone. It has a duffle, with a hidden compartment that holds the case, and a large area for other trip essentials.

It is a pain in the A$$ to use. Heavy, big, and all over the place. I have hauled my Uggy, shown, around in it, but haven't used it in a long time. I truly hope to never board an aircraft again, and, especially, hope to never, ever, set foot in Europe again.
My days of needing an aluminum case are likely behind me. I have Wisconsin to the east, the Dakotas to the west, live in Minnesota, and Iowa is just to the south. I'm pretty close to bird heaven, right here.


Perry,
My only reference on the Browning Airways cases is a small pocket catalog from Browning, dated March of 1970. It states the cases were available fitted to the Superposed, bolt rifles, .22 automatic, and the A5, with different prices for each model. Nothing is stated about different sizes of cases within each model, and I've not seen anything but 31" cases for sale for the BSS line of guns, which, were not mentioned in this catalog-they were still two years down the road for Browning in 1970.
The Case is clearly for the BSS guns, and mine fits nice and snug in it, but, you could get a bigger doublegun in it, that is for sure.
The LOP of the BSS is pretty close to my other guns, as shown:



The top gun is a Prandelli and Gasperini 3" 20 gauge, that I don't have a good use for. Next is an Uggy 12, also a 3" gun, but, a little lighter than the Italian 20. Next is the BSS, a gun I have had on my radar a few years, and my old R10 Darne. LOP is a bit troublesome up here, where you might hunt in 80 degree temps early season, and finish in sub zero temps later that year. I guess I prefer a compromise just a little bit shorter than my normal, for when I'm forced into a coat.

The BSS will work out fine.

I did hear from a Browning collector that if you wanted a case for your BSS, either boxlock or SLE, this is what you got.

One size fits all.


Best,
Ted

Yep!! After looking at it several other times and comparing the stock to all the other gun dimensions I finally reached the conclusion that it was merely an optical illusion caused by the additional length of the case. Thanks though for the clarification.

At 14 1/4� LOP, they made theJapanese made Browning SLE too short for double trigger guns from the get go.

That statement 'sorta ssumes everyone has the same LOP requirements. As people age, it is typical for their LOP requirement to decrease, and their cast requirement to increase. I'm not getting younger.

I do know for fact that when I have a Tshirt, wool Pendleton shirt, and an insulated hunting coat on at 15 degrees, say, on December 28th, a LOP that is perfect in July, isn't.

I can make due with the LOP as it is, and use it year round.

It is interesting, eye opening, actually, following what George Hoenig, James Flynn, Abe Chaber, Kirk Merrington, and others, think of this series of guns.

Best,
Ted

I had a pleasant, if sweaty, few hours at the range with the gun today. I patterned it about 6 rounds through each tube, and it seems to shoot right about where I am looking. I'd call the patterns about 60/40, right where I like 'em, and say the chokes, about .009 and .020 probably throw a little tighter than I expected. Bores are right on .729, none of this backbore stuff, and I used Federal 1 oz loads of 8s for that, and a round of skeet, shot low gun. Not a great round, but, I expect I will improve. I always have to work up with a new gun. It was unpleasantly hot and humid, and I called off the war after 1 round, had a lemonaid with my son in the air conditioned clubhouse, then went home and had a beer while cleaning it up. I doubt I'll feed it anything too hot, it is a light gun, perhaps later in pheasant season a few big numbers, but, 1 oz patterns so sweetly it hardly seems worth it.
Very happy so far.

Many thanks, Geo.

Best,
Ted

Its pretty obvious to the casual observer that Browning just sort of by reflex (rather than really thinking it through) made their DT SLE 14 1/4� LOP since the majority of their hunting guns with single triggers had 14 1/4� LOP, such as the Browning Superposed guns. I don�t think they considered DT guns usually require about 1/2� more in LOP than a ST gun. So, this DT gun with 14 1/4� would approximately equate to a ST gun LOP of 13 3/4�.......that�s pretty short. I shoot DT guns with 15� LOP, so even if I were clothed for hunting in the next Ice Age, 14 1/4� LOP would be pretty short and next to worthless for me in a DT gun. I think Browning would have accommodated more people by making the stocks a bit longer for the SLE Japanese guns. Just my humble opinion though. Nice guns overall. Glad you are happy, Ted.

Ted,
I'm happy to see that you have your BSS-SL. Although I usually take a longer length of pull, I shoot both my 20 and 12 ga. BSS-SL's really well. I suppose that I get the job done by simply crawling the stock, but it works well for me.
Congratulations on your gun, they really were Browning best's as the DGJ article referred to them.
Karl

Ted,
I just looked through one of my older Browning catalogs from the 80's, and it shows a BSS-SL in a Browning traditional dark brown case. The case product number is listed as #2015, specific to Browning's SxS's.
Karl

B.C. Miroku SLE SxS guns are not easy to find. A 14&1/4" LOP would fit average Asian shooter pretty well. I suspect what B.C. Miroku did is just stamp Browning name and address on them tubes and send the guns into USA. I'm surprised Browning imported SxS game guns in late 70s and early 80s because at that time hardly anyone used them. They must have sold as well as milk or bread past their "best if used by date".

I've seen them in that case, and seen them in the Airways case. I believe few Americans actually bought a case for their Browning SXS guns, boxlock or sidelock, and the few that did were at the mercy of what Mr. Dealer had in stock.
The Airways case had been in production for about a decade, for the BSS boxlocks, when the sidelock came out. It had been available for other Browning guns for a lot longer.
I suspect as far as Browning cases go, it was the easier of the two to find.

I will need to practice with the gun, it isn't magic, but, it is doing it's part, according to the paper I shot on Saturday.

Enjoy your BSS sidelocks, Karl. Mine seems to be a stout, but, light gun, that will handle 1oz loads most of the time, and bigger numbers here and there.

Best,
Ted

Ted,
I shoot 1 oz. loads to good effect in mine at 1175 fps. using Estate SS target loads. For hunting I like the RST 1 oz. loads in 7's and 5's. I've used mine for nearly 12 years and wouldn't part with them, and I hope in time you will feel the same.
Karl

Articles I've read over the years have said that Browning only made about 900 of the BSS Sidelocks over the whole production period. As many as we see for sale and just around here, I wonder about that number. There's also the question of the two engraving versions to be found. Last I read, Browning denies they even produced the game scene version, but that's clearly a mistake because the guns have Browning on them.

Anyone have the latest best information on these interesting guns?...Geo

George,
Ever since I purchased my first one, I read James Flynn's article as well as the one done in the DGJ. I've seen a couple of the game scene guns for sale as well, that feature drop points but with less engraving overall on the gun. The scroll engraved version is still my favorite, and the game scene versions seem to command a higher price, perhaps because of their rarity.
The two articles I mentioned are the only ones that I'm aware of. The ones remaining at the dealers were highly discounted at the time Browning discontinued them, which would have been the perfect time to strike!
Karl

I've seen the game scene guns with higher prices, but, they seem to sit forever. I also prefer the scroll version, and it seems there are always a few for sale. I've heard the same production number Geo posted, with about half that number for the Belgian version of the gun. It would be interesting to know if it is the same gun, or if the Belgian gun is significantly different in any way.
The BSS Browning, with it's 2 3/4" chamber and modern, well finished steel, should be an excellent gun for typical hunting that is available to me. I can sneak promo loads in it, if I have to.
I had a pre Royal Holland project gun, with a Holland patent single trigger, many years ago, and the experience kept me away from sidelocks for close to thirty years.
I find myself remembering things I liked (sweet balance and handling) and disliked (sharp edges on bottom of the action) about sidelock guns as I work into the ownership of a different example. The pros do outweigh the cons by a long shot.
I may remove the springs from the ejectors down the road, or, just leave them be. Other than that, I plan no changes.

Best,
Ted

Karl I wish I'd bought mine during the discount period. I also had two (both 12ga) but passed the better one along to Ted. The other has 28" barrels with the chokes opened, and a recoil pad added. I'm rough on guns and don't feel so bad about using up the one I kept...Geo

Geo,
My money is on the 28" Browning you kept, NOT being used up.

Thanks for the nice gun. I can deal with shorter 26" tubes in a grouse woods, and, although the gun feels really good coming up, I think there is a leather slip on pad about the place, should I feel extra tall some day.

I haven't been lucky enough to handle a BSS boxlock that handles as nice as the side lock I got from you, most of the 12s seem a bit porky, but, I'd bet they are out there.

I'm caught up on guns for the moment.

Any plans for a certain Frenchy that came your way, or, shoot it as is?

No wrong answer. Either plan would be good.

Best,
Ted

I don't think there's a wrong way to shoot a V-19 Darne that you can hit stuff with. Wonderful gun! The cast off that was giving you fits is like it was made for me.

I'd be able to shoulder it a little easier if I reduced the LOP a half inch but I like the way the butt is checkered so for now I'm adjusting my gun-mount to compensate. We'll see after the first dove season...Geo

Cheaper to adjust myself than to have the gun adjusted.

Ted,
The sharp edges on the bottom of the action is one thing I don't care for on sidelocks, although that can be cured if one were to get a rounded version. For half day hunts it's okay, but not for all day in the U.P. woods. At 6lbs. 8 oz. it is a pleasure to carry, but for the coming season it will be my 5 lb. 12 oz. Churchill boxlock with it's softer edged action.
Come October!
Karl

Which is 68 days, 15 hrs. 18 mins. and 36 seconds away................................... if anybody is keeping count.

SRH

Karl,
I think I can work around it with a pair of thin, leather, shooting gloves. I never owned shooting gloves until my Dad passed away, and I ended up with his. He thought they were the cat's meow, and had several nice ($$$$) pairs.

I never had a glove on my hand, when hunting, until age 50, or so. Didn't need them. I likely don't need to tell you they can save your hide when grouse hunting in the thorns. I'll see what kind of adaptations I have to make to have it work out for me.

I'm not an ejector guy, either, unless they are Darne ejectors, which, just yank the spent rounds out of the chamber and leave them on the action flats. So, as noted, that may be changing.

I suppose all designs of guns have a compromise or three built into them. It is up to us to figure out which ones we can live with.

Cautously optimistic on this design. Feels good to me.

Best,
Ted

Stan,
Thanks for the time update, and yes, I'm counting.
Ted,
I've always worn gloves when hunting to keep my hands from being shredded. Taking an 81 mg. aspirin each day as a blood thinner doesn't help either!
Karl