|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
3 members (Tyler, Jimmy W, 1 invisible),
1,072
guests, and
8
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics38,468
Posts545,136
Members14,409
| |
Most Online1,271
Apr 26th, 2024
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31 |
Anyone ever hear of SxS marked Heinrich Keighoff. Suhl? It is a high quality side lock . And yes, I did not leave out the r
HWK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 173
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 173 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 129 Likes: 5
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 129 Likes: 5 |
In any way there is a spelling mistake, often seen with US writers:
The name is Krieghoff, never Kreighoff
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,463 Likes: 207
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,463 Likes: 207 |
SXS40,
It would help if you post photos of the markings, including Proof Marks.
Mike
Furmann, That is the type mistake I often make.
Mike
Last edited by Der Ami; 06/13/18 10:29 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,486 Likes: 391
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,486 Likes: 391 |
My understanding, which helps me when spelling, is the second vowel is a long vowel and the sound we pronounce. As in Kreeghoff. If it was spelled Kreighoff, we would pronounce it with an eye.
Dont know if thats any kind of rule but it generally works for me.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7 |
My understanding, which helps me when spelling, is the second vowel is a long vowel and the sound we pronounce. As in Kreeghoff. If it was spelled Kreighoff, we would pronounce it with an eye.
Dont know if thats any kind of rule but it generally works for me. That is the rule. "I before E, sounds like an E. E before I, sounds like an eye." Keeping those combinations straight can be important.
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,274 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,274 Likes: 1 |
Old rule "i before e except after c"
I learn something every day, and a lot of times it's that what I learned the day before was wrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 284 Likes: 25
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 284 Likes: 25 |
In English maybe, yes, but in German, nein.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31 |
It was very difficult to photograph the barrel flats do to the light reflection off of the jeweling. Hope this is readable. 
HWK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7 |
Belgian. All day, every day, twice on Sunday.
Looks like a "xi" over a "*G". I don't have the date tables handy but I'll guess immediate post-WWII.
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10 |
I see a "w" which would mean 1944.
For "ARMAF"see here:http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20a/a%20armaf%20fr.htm
Cheers,
Gunwolf
Last edited by Gunwolf; 07/12/18 06:58 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31 |
So, in reference to my original post, has anyone heard of Heinrich Keighoff of Suhl? That is the marking on the left barrel. The rib is marked barrels by Armaf
Just trying to figure out who made this gun and where. Or any other info out there.
Thanks
HWK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Looks like the tubes were by Jean Falla and made for export in 1956 if the lettre annale is xi? Have you any images of the Suhl stamps? Below is a link to a similar set of replacement tubes from ARMAF DAGUN(Manufacture Ligeoise d'armes Feu & J.B. Rong Fils(Jean Baptiste)) Socit Anonyme(ARMAF Ligeoise) in 1954: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post501529Cheers, Raimey rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10 |
@SXS40,can you post a picture of the "Keighoff" inscript?
Cheers,
Gunwolf
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
 So, if a replacement tubeset, let's see the action / frame? How many jeweled flats did the Belgians turn out....? Cheers, Raimey rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Is this the beast?     Cheers, Raimey rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31 |
Yes, that is the gun. Where did you get the great photos?
Last edited by SXS 40; 07/14/18 11:13 AM.
HWK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
From the bowels of the internet on Poulin Antiques & Auction Inc. site. Is it a 2 barrel set?? Poulin site gives that the water-table is jeweled as well. Images of the water-table & standing breech of the receiver is about the only way we can put the pieces together.  Cheers, Raimey rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31 |
Gunwolf wanted to see the Keighoff barrel marking. With the action flats jeweled, pinned disc set strikers and side clips, I consider this a fairly high quality gun for Belgium. Yes, it is a two barrel set.   photo host
Last edited by SXS 40; 07/14/18 03:25 PM.
HWK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169 |
WOW!! It does have the HK on the breech face What a story that would make!! I would suggest you contact Krieghoff Of course the r is not there and the i and e are reversed, but ??? https://www.krieghoff.com/610-847-5173 Send them this link on doublegunshop and ask them to please research their records https://www.krieghoff.com/about-krieghoff/contact/
Last edited by skeettx; 07/14/18 03:32 PM.
USAF RET 1971-95 ![[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]](http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/57865_80x60.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Are there Belgian proofs on the other tubeset? Either the previous custodian had easier access to the Liege proof-facility rather than the German ones or the mechanic he tasked for a new set of tubes(possibly two)a sourced ARMAF for the tubeset. With the German proofmarks on the water-table, it was an all German product at one time. Evidently the Liege artisan couldn't spell Krieghoff?
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
I now see the Krieghoff Schwertanker low on the left side of the jeweled water-table.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31 |
So, what is the conclusion? Is this a Krieghoff knock off, or a real Krieghoff rebarreled in Belgium.
The other set of barrels have the same proof marks and are numbered to the gun.
Last edited by SXS 40; 07/14/18 05:21 PM.
HWK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Once again, how or what does the other tubeset read & what are the country of origin proofmarks? Yes, from what I see a bona fide Krieghoff receiver & an ARMAF rebarrel.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10 |
What I see is K E I G H O F F and not K R I E G H O F F . That's heavy and looks like a fake!
What would you call a P U R D E Y with the inscript P U E D Y...? There wasn't any gunmaker named KEIGHOFF in Suhl as far as I know! So someone wanted to write Krieghoff and wrote Keighoff for whatever reason. Probably he was not German.
Cheers,
Gunwolf
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Well, maybe it never went back to Suhl? Was there reciprocity between the Liege & Suhl proof facilities in 1954?
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10 |
Raimey, I cannot imagine that this was the case in 1954.... Germany was not allowed to only make guns until 1956 and in Suhl = DDR there were much more restrictions.
Cheers,
Wolfgang
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,463 Likes: 207
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,463 Likes: 207 |
It looks like the Belgian engraver couldn't spell German names.
Mike
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Raimey, I cannot imagine that this was the case in 1954.... Germany was not allowed to only make guns until 1956 and in Suhl = DDR there were much more restrictions. Even more reason to send it on to Liege. I wouldn't doubt the receiver to be a pre-WWII Krieghoff offering....... Seeing the back of the locks, the buttplate & what's under it along w/ the other tubeset might net some answers. Cheers, Raimey rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169 |
OK, looked at the action flats AGAIN
has both Belgium AND German proofmarks
What fun, what fun
Mike
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
The only way those German proofmarks could be legitimate is if the receiver is a pre-WWII offering.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169 |
Wish I could see the German marks better, and maybe find a date code 
USAF RET 1971-95
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
For the date-code, you are going to need the original tubeset.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31 |
I received a reply from Krieghoff. They say the gun was made by them in 1939. Obviously, it has been rebarrelled since. Maybe a WWII souvenir?
Skeettx, thank you for the contact information.
Last edited by SXS 40; 07/20/18 09:55 PM.
HWK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Well, that confirms some suspicions. Possibly a WWII trophy but I would think it stayed in Europe till the rebarrel. It is possible that a GI poked it in a duffel and brought just the receiver home. Then spending quite a deal of money, he had the additional tubesets made in Liege. Maybe he was stationed in Europe and more easily sent it to Liege?? Any history on the previous custodian?
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31 |
Received a further response from Krieghoff today. I quote the gun looks like really good. It has been identified as a model MONACO II, Pigeon gun. The response included some documents which I will add to this post tomorrow
, all in German, so I have almost no idea what they say. It looks like this gun was the most expensive model with the arabesque engraving.
HWK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10 |
@SXS 40: I would like to have a look at those German documents..!
Gunwolf
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Wolfgang:
You are not alone.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 400 Likes: 31 |
With my VERY limited computer skills, it took me a while to figure how to put the documents in a format that I could post here. Sorry, they are sideways ?? Any translation would be appreciated. Thanks   
Last edited by SXS 40; 07/28/18 11:28 PM.
HWK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Many thanks & appears to be just a snippet of their catalogue & a couple of testimonials of top shots or winners @ pigeon shoots.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
