doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Cutting Paradox Rifling...

I know it is a long shot but anyone know of a smith that cuts Paradox style rifling. Picked up a nice 60's vintage Richland Arms 10ga with tight full chokes in both barrels. Barrels are a bit long at 32" but I thought If I could get rifling cut in this gun I could live with the length.

Would probably be the only way I will ever own a Paradox and this gun seems solid enough to work well, chambered for 3 1/2 shells. It is in nice shape, has triple bites and is tight and on face. It also has reinforcements on the side of the action for additional strength.

Any and all thoughts appreciated!

Thanks,
WBLDon

You might find it easier to locate a gunsmith that can thread the barrels for choke tubes. Then you can install "rifled" tubes" for shooting sabot slugs. I've done it with a spanish double and it worked great.

You might try calling Dan Pedersen of Classic Barrel and Gunworks, http://www.cutrifle.com/. I don't know if he does this kind of work, but he did a setback/rebore/rechamber job for me and I was very satisfied with the quality of his work.

Fella by the name/alias of Rudy Bolla (I think I've seen his name here?) had a 28ga Husky rifled and it's up on GB. I have no idea who did the work, sorry.

Link => https://www.gunbroker.com/item/772186089

Edit to add: Link to discussion on this board here => http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=505861&page=1

Bobby Hoyt does a tremendous amount of rebore/rerifle and reline work. Mostly big bore stuff in the muzzle loader field. He might be someone that could help you out.
Very well spoken of around the BP forums, ect and has been at it for a long time.

No website or email.

Contact info (this is up to date and a new address & #'s as he just moved in the last few months)


Bobby Hoyt
2379 Mount Hope Road
Fairfield PA 17320
ph: 717-642-6696

Thanks folks. I gave the rifled chokes some thought but I don't believe anyone is making a Sabot Slug arrangement for the 10 ga. that I am aware of & I am not sure how well the rifled chokes work with the old style big lead slugs. If you have any experience with these it would be greatly appreciated. Also would like to stay as "old world" as possible.

Keep the input coming...

Thanks much.
WBLDon

Heads up, after much searching and talking with some of the major choke tube manufacturers there isn't anyone currently offering aftermarket "rifled" choke tubes.

Figured this may help someone else save some time down the road...

The search continues...

WBLDon

I don't know if he can, but maybe John Taylor in WA state can help jump start the project. I believe he does special project rifling in his shop. If they were measured up carefully, maybe the barrels will be pretty meaty if the length were shortened to 24 or 25", or leave it full length. Maybe, he would consider making and installing a few inches of rifled 'liner' in the muzzle end like he lines bad chambers while preserving the original bore. He also does a very nice job of blending his lining jobs at the muzzle. Best of luck with the project.

There was a fellow in South Carolina in the same town as the NASCAR race track that had the equipment to rifle smoothbore shotgun muzzles. He disassembled the setup for lack of interest by the customers. I have some rifled tubes in 20 and 12 GA that could be threaded and fitted to a screw choke gun.

Thanks for the suggestions folks. After further thought and research I have decided to scrap this idea for the time being.

Again thanks for the input and suggestions...

WBLDon

I had a long email correspondence with a fellow from Australia who installed a pair of Rifled choke tubes in a 12GA SXS. Then he regulated it like a rifle. He killed a lot of those big buffalo in the north with it. I think he was using Brenneke slugs.

Vol, was the guy from Oz Marrakai or something close?
He used to post here years ago, he was mad for sxs's with big slugs for those big buffaloes,very interesting bloke
cheers
franc

I suspect that shotgun chokes might be a bit too short to work well as a Paradox with bullets. If it was a barrel with plenty of metal in it, I believe you might get better results by amputating or reaming out the choke, and cutting full-length shallow, slow-twist rifling.

That shouldn't deform birdshot in this age of shot-cup wads, and while centrifugal force would widen the shot pattern, it shouldn't produce a doughnut pattern. The shot are spinning in a smaller diameter spiral as you move inward from the outside, and the ones in the middle aren't spinning at all.

The shop that was cutting Paradox chokes was Darlington Gun Works in Darlington, SC. Jim Kelly is the owner.

Darlington Gun Works Inc
516 S Governor Williams Hwy, Darlington, SC 29532
(843) 393-3931

It's a fool's errand to think you could cut Paradox rifling in the chokes of a 10b shotgun. The barrels aren't nearly heavy enough and there's not even close to the amount of metal needed at the chokes to do the job. A Paradox is not a shotgun nor is it a shotgun conversion.

Here is a photo of the muzzles of my Holland & Holland 10b Paradox to give you an idea of what's going on:





The 27" steel barrels alone weigh 6 lbs. 15 oz., with the gun coming in at 13 lbs. 1 oz.

Here's the H&H ledger sheet:




Here's a photo (top, obviously):




Some bullets:




A few loaded rounds (225 grains 2F, 2 ounce bullet):





Kaboom! A right and a left:






See my first two shots ever on YouTube: https://youtu.be/saNWxgyOW6c
Anybody want to give it a try?


Curl

WBLDon, rifled chokes can still be had as I just last week bought a pair for my CZ 12ga hammer sxs. They are made by Carlsons at www.chocktubes.com I do know that in the past they would do custom work...maybe even on a 10ga, but as CptCurl said the paradox barrels were quite a bit heavier than a shotgun. I owned a nice Hollis with the invisible rifling and it's barrels were somewhere near 0.95 to 0.125 as I remember....shot a Fosbery style slug of about 700 grains with 26grains of 4756 to point of aim each barrel at 75 yards

Looking at curl's muzzle I think the twist rate is steeper than the Carlson 6" rifled extension--and I get lead smear big time unless I shoot slower slug loads than the 1350-1600 fps factory offerings I see out there. The slug is just moving too fast by the time it engages the rifling. I even see it on my 20" barrel with 6 inch rifled extension. I don't know how the paradox could fare much differently given those factory speeds. Fully rifled barrels avoid the problem in the first place. (strangely, the best slug performance I get is with an ancient BBF over under combo with no rifling at all in the shotgun barrel--but it shoots a 2" group at 100 yds with the old Activ slugs, and the same group two inches farther to the left with the classic Brennekes. Good luck!