doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com clays and old hammer guns

I ran straight in skeet with my 1892 Ithaca Crass using low pressure smokeless loads.

I do hope this "testing" method is in jest. It may shoot that time but what happens when it lets go in your hand and near other people.

Proof testing is best left to the proof house. Have a local smith with a understanding of double guns go over it and include wall thickness in the process.

Low pressure ammo is a must if it is declared safe. If it is not in proof hang it on a wall.

I shoot older damacus every day- but they are in proof and I shoot proper loads. With that they will play for many more years with proper care.

al

99% of the American damascus guns would be wall hangers then.
Proof is a fleeting thing, here today and gone tomorrow!
Who knows what gnaws away in those twisty things while you sleep?

Lowell,

I think you are way wrong- the English depended on a proof system and the Americans depended on each manufacturer to acheive proof- just a diference in infrastructure.

Many American damascus guns are viable to shoot- and some of them may need to go to proof to make sure they are safe. At the very least every gun should be looked at by a smith and the condition determined but backyard proof tests do not work and prove nothing but the gun fires that time.

al

I'm a hypocrite because I counsel caution and inspections for others in these matters and for decades blithely and innocently fired the hottest CIL "blue Imperial" duck loads without incident in twist, damascus, laminated hammerguns. I still do but It's all low-pressure now. In more than 65 years of shotgunning I've never seen a rupture and only one bulge. I'm also agnostic about "proof to make sure they are safe." Nothing is safe or certain about explosions in guns, particularly if they are old.

Lets face it, the risk of burst is greater simply because a domestic vintage damascus piece is almost ceratinly going to be a weapon over a hundred years old. If shot in the past by the "village idiot" with "nitro mags" the risk of metal fatigue is considerable!
Gee, do you really think most of those really OLD domestic doubles are worth sending over to a smith who is going to "prep" them for submission to Euro proofhof?

First & Foremost let me say, I am not advocating it, but I fail to see the reasoning behind;; If I stick a high brass "Express" load (max pressure 11.5K) in a gun & fire it with no damage, why this would result in possible irrepareable damage while if I pay $300.00+ to ship to England & they fire a 16K+ pressure load through it none will occur. The theory behind proof is if it holds up to one shot of a given pressure it should hold up indefinately to a pressure of about 2/3 that intensity.

How would you personally assure that after 11,5K shell firing no damage has occured? What would you measure?

aps,
I guess I am just a idiot, I Have been shooting damascus for along time, and never felt the need to send one off to get "proof" I measure for wall thickness and I test shoot them. And of course i use a proper shell with about 7k to 8k psi, no more. I have yet to have any problems. I seriously doubt I could find anyone around me that "proofs" old shotguns.

Sherman Bell makes the disclaimer that the miserable failure of the Remington proof loads to do more than ruin the breech lockup and wood of some very decrepit damascus examples doesn't speak to the probability that we won't be able to blow one with our puny 7/8oz. loads at 5-6-7000psi. Sounds like something we'll all establish to our own satisfaction--or not. Some of us can't help being encouraged by statistically invalid experiments. Some of us still believe everything we read on an ancient shell box. I should know as I've belonged to both camps.

jack