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Now that Michael is gone, how do we get the owners and buyers of prewar custom rifles to discuss their guns? Is there another internet site where such things are discussed? I believe MP, SDH, and I collaborated to get Dave Weber to create this subforum for custom rifle collectors. It seems that the subforum has died, with no replacement. Too bad, because at one time it provided a wealth of information. No more. It is up to the posters to contribute, Dave Weber can't do it. He only provides the forum, we have to post interesting information. Bill Murphy in Maryland.

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One roadblock to more participation is the difficulty of posting photos. Another seems to be the aging out of members with any interest/knowledge of the rifles Michael wrote about. I wish there were more of us but don't have a clue how to bring that about. I do note that recent auction prices for vintage American custom rifles seem to be healthy. A possible incentive for increased participation might be to encourage members to post questions about these rifles thus stimulating others to respond.


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It's not just this sub-forum, the traffic on the entire board is down. I used to log on to the main forum and see 20+ threads with new posts, now I'm lucky to see 10 and half of those are the nonsense and infighting that has become SOP here. Dave doesn't care to moderate so the inmates run wild.

I agree with Bill that if this forum hosted it's own photos it would make me more apt to join in. Almost every other board hosts it's own photos these days, it prevents things like the Photobucket debacle from ruining old threads.


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A few months back Dave did remove posts from this sub-forum from one of the more vitriolic posters at my request. I was just trying to keep this place civil. The idiotic and disgusting political and social rants on the main board do nothing to help the popularity of this site in general. Unfortunately I have trouble sending anyone here for that reason... frankly, it embarrasses me.

I personally continue to try and make a living from this interest and have little time to do more that monitor the site. Picture posting is a hassle and it would behoove any wanting more participation to learn how to do it and contribute pics (Murphy). I'll try to post some pic in the future.

I do want to thank gasgunner and Dan for helping me out with guns for Sports Afield stories! I did two columns on Fred Adolph and one about Sedgley Springfield's is due up next (July/August). I'm looking at writing a piece on Hutton in light of the newly surfaced rifles.

Rasping an ebony forend tip




Last edited by SDH-MT; 05/16/18 05:00 PM. Reason: edit
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Another factor in declining participation may be that the oldest and steadiest readers/posters have simply run out of things to focus on. I see that in publications. If you read a given one for 20 years, it starts to seem as if there's nothing new under the sun. The one topic that never wears out for me though is the exceptional specimen, a gun or rifle that's unique and fine. Posts about them have to have photos, of course. Maybe someone here could offer photo posting as a semi-commercial service. I'd be happy to pay a reasonable fee for help like that.


Bill Ferguson
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There is a lot of "new under the sun". We are dying off and our early custom rifles are for sale and at auction. I just bought three mint condition 30s rifles built by John Oberlies, Dayton, Ohio, my main custom rifle interest. They are out there. Let's talk about them on this site. Bill Murphy

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Perhaps one thing that could create a little more activity here would be to include rifles other than bolt actions and especially 1903s. This is obviously near and dear to the hearts of the majority of people here and I don't want to discourage that discussion but there is room to add. Michael used to post some Schuetzen rifles, but there are many other types of custom rifles, including muzzleloaders, lever guns, and so forth. It would be nice to see a broader range of things.

Last March, I was fortunate enough to shoot the LRML Match at Oak Ridge where the shooters and others were invited to show up with all the old muzzleloading Alex Henry's, Rigbys, Whitworths, and any other interesting rifles. It was pretty amazing evening for about 40 people and as many rifles. I would love to see some of them post here.

Sadly, I don't have much in the way of custom rifles, being a shooter/competitor/hunter, but not much of a collector, I do enjoy looking on and listening in. The recent Hutton thread is great, but how about a cased Alex Henry .451 double muzzleloader? I'd love to see a few more of those, and others that I don't even know exist.

What else do people here collect?


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When Michael got this section started it was supposed to be for single shot custom rifles of any kind. But it seems the focus has been bolt action customs from the post WWI era on. Occasionally someone posts pictures of custom single shots that aren't bolt actions, but since those topics seem to get little responses there seems to be less posted.
I hope most people understand that as popular as custom bolt action rifles are amongst the readers here, they don't have a huge following in general?

edit-Looks like Brent and I were typing similar thoughts at the same time!

Last edited by Vall; 05/08/18 10:16 AM.
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Yes, we were. I have to say that this site has made me much more appreciative of bolt rifles, enough so that I even bought two. Of course, one of those didn't work out so well, but in any event, a little more diversity might inspire a bolt rifle fan to dip a toe into Borchardt Schuetzen rifles or maybe highwall varminters (ouch! not something I care for personally) or long range muzzleloaders, etc.


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Murphy, I've never seen an Oberlies rifle. Why can't you learn to
post photos? How are we supposed to talk about your rifle when we have never seen them and you don't tell us about them?
If you want more participation, participate more.


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Bill Murphy didn't say he had difficulty posting photos. That was rocky mtn bill.

Actually, posting photos here is very simple. A child could do it. I've lost count of the number of times people have posted easy to follow instructions utilizing several images hosting services.

One thing that I think reduces or inhibits participation is when a certain gunsmith uses this forum as a source of free advertising for his stock making classes. The For Sale Forum would be a more appropriate place for such off-topic stuff unless one is trying to avoid paying Dave Weber for selling goods or services on his site. Just my opinion.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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No, Keith, you are the number one reason for reduced participation. You win in a walk.


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Wouldn't it be nice for you if I wasn't here Brent? Then you could post your links to junk science that supports lead ammunition bans without any questions or challenges.

Your reply sounds like more of your sour grapes. Grow up.


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There is very much a place here for single shots of the era, in addition to bolt guns. Three of my John Oberlies built rifles are outrageous Winchester Highwalls, one is a Model 61 Winchester, and one is a George Ulrich engraved Pigeon Grade Model 12. The other ten are bolt guns of various styles, no two alike. I will try to get some pictures of them because I am through adding to my collection.

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I will post some photos soon of a Daniel Fraser take down 98 Mauser.


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

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Originally Posted By: BrentD
No, Keith, you are the number one reason for reduced participation. You win in a walk.


^^^^ This.

Also, there needs to be a more welcoming attitude amongst participants... the level of knowledge here could be intimidating to some.


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keith is a pariah to this board and now he is going to try to ruin this side that we have kept relatively poison free.
I have had him (and others) on my ignore list for a long time and I suggest others try this and simply don't even look at his posts. They are all vitriol and I've had enough of that in my life for my whole life.
If he persists, I'm going to ask Dave to at the least ban him from this sub-forum. Dave is actively killing this board by not dealing with him and a few others.

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Agreed


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Steven's postings to promote his gunsmithing classes are an effort to preserve the skills that made this site possible. With each passing day we lose people with skills and knowledge that will never be recovered. By all means let us promote the creation of the things that this site exists to discuss and explore.

Last edited by rocky mtn bill; 05/08/18 05:23 PM.

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I must confess to always having to relearn photo posting methods. Several members have 'splained it to me using different programs, but I always forget by the next time I have something interesting enough to show. People even older than myself say me it gets worse....

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Poorhouse,
You really need to teach yourself. It's pretty easy if you hit the Switch to Full Reply Screen and just figure it out.

Alternatively, if you look at post that has a photo in it, and reply with a quote you will see the code that you can type in to get your picture to post. At some point, you have to take the initiative to teach yourself.

If I can do it, anyone can.


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Originally Posted By: BrentD
Poorhouse,
You really need to teach yourself. It's pretty easy if you hit the Switch to Full Reply Screen and just figure it out.

Alternatively, if you look at post that has a photo in it, and reply with a quote you will see the code that you can type in to get your picture to post. At some point, you have to take the initiative to teach yourself.

If I can do it, anyone can.


A lot of people here really care about this forum, I've come to know, mostly by posts and e-mails, a lot of really great people. I sure miss Michael, Whitey, and J.D. Steele. I wish I had joined this forum earlier and gotten the chance to know Mark Benenson. I am grateful for the people that I do know that are currently active here.

I am happy to post pictures for others, just drop me a personal message.

I've found that as far as posting images is concerned, the problems often occur with changes to sites like photobucket. I am glad that I now use imgur, but it got to the point where I could simply not get photobucket to do the things it used to do.

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I appreciate this forum as I have learned a lot here. I have a couple of Shelhamer/Neidner custom rifles that I will have photos posted here when I can make photos of them and get them to a member who has offered to post them.

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Originally Posted By: PhysDoc


A lot of people here really care about this forum, I've come to know, mostly by posts and e-mails, a lot of really great people. I sure miss Michael, Whitey, and J.D. Steele. I wish I had joined this forum earlier and gotten the chance to know Mark Benenson. I am grateful for the people that I do know that are currently active here.





Michael, JDSteele and Whitey Hanson were amongst others, the reason I joined this site and began watching this forum. I always learned something from all of them, and like some others I learned to appreciate bolt action custom rifles from Michael's enthusiasm for them.

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These pics were an experiment with a new host.
Alex Henry hammerless with spiced pistol grip. I really can't remember who I borrowed this rifle from nor it's caliber???

Sorry the images don't appear?? Can this be rectified?
Didn't work....


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The imagines won't appear because you did not supply the file names that end in .jpg. These urls don't show a picture, even if you click on them to go to the site.


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It took six little mouse clicks to put a picture into the reply box, and you don't need to go to the full reply screen. Click on "Submit", and it's done. It ain't rocket science. Or you could make a mountain out of a molehill. This is my Louis Christophe .450 BPE Double Rifle:



Additional pics take another 5 clicks, and about 15 seconds tops. This is one of my MMC Checkering Tools.

rocky mtn bill says they require no lubrication, and accused me of lying about it in this thread:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=465994&page=14

Can you imagine how long those tiny little gears and bearings would last under load at an input speed of 17,000 RPM?



A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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I know this thread is a little older, so I am not sure if anyone will see my $0.02 worth, but here goes -

The Savage collector's forum on 24 hour campfire is very active. There are several very knowledgeable collectors there, and they seem to have a lot of fun. They definitely avoid arguing with one another and try to keep it light. They also post hunting pictures, which everyone likes, and they have an annual get together.

Overall though, one thing that seems to really have stimulated Savage 99 collecting is the recent David Royal book, with lots of color photos, a welcome addition to the Doug Murray book which for years was the only resource for 99 collectors.

For my part, I love Michael Petrov's book on the custom makers, but the biggest shortcoming is that it is small, black and white, and not many detail photos - kind of like the Murray book.

Before some of you very knowledgeable and advanced collectors move on to the great gun show in the sky, you should open your safes and allow someone to put together a really great full color photo book. I also guarantee that it will increase the value of your pieces, which has been the case with 99 Savages since the Royal book came out because it spurs interest and help define variations etc. Perhaps you all can use this forum as a way to bring people together toward a significant and beautiful book project?

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If you talk to advanced Savage collectors I get a much different review of Royal's book. Yes, lots of pretty pictures, but those who pointed out errors or deficiencies in his book before printing were not listened to by the author. The omissions and errors remained when it went to print. Some of those same extremely knowledgeable Savage 99 collectors don't hang out at the 24 hour campfire anymore either.

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That's my take on the Royal book too. It's a great coffee table book, but not without errors. The factual/statistical info is all garnered from Murray and/or info sussed out on the forum by we members. Very little, if any, primary source/original research- but a heckuva lot of pretty pictures which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Michael's approach was the opposite I feel- the research being paramount, the pics secondary (although his pics were world class to boot).

Having been a member on the Savage forum for almost a decade and a half I like to feel I've contributed to the knowledge base, but have learned far far more. The members there are as knowledgeable in their field(s) as are the members here in theirs. The difference is as pointed out: the humor that creeps in and the "real life" interaction. That, I feel, is why it endures.

Y'all have a good Memorial Day Weekend. Don't forget the reason for its being. And get some shooting in! (I'll be dragging a trunk full of Savages, Springfields, and Winchesters along on my trip that revolves around range time primarily.)

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