doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Stockmaker John L. Hutton, follow-up.

Howdy folks, I do a lot of reading here but don't often have much to contribute. I read a post here a short while back that mentioned a stock maker by the name of Hutton, and a book I had never heard of was also referenced, Custom Gunsmiths of the 20th Century by Michael Petrov. I looked up its price and availability, and while looking through a list of that book's Vol. 2 contents from one vendor I noticed the name, John L. Hutton. I have since bought Vol. 2 of the book, and a second printing of Vol. 1, and also searched this forum for more info on him. I since have learned here that Michael Petrov had passed away, and that he had authored another book, Vol. 1 of the same name and I also searched and found several other references to John L. Hutton in this forum.

I am curious if any of you, namely gasgunner, eightbore, Newton1131, WindRiver, SDH-MT, or SKB knows of anyone that may have obtained Michael's notes and is maybe continuing on with a Vol.3 of his work? Michael's Vol. 2 indicates that nothing was known about John. L. Hutton after about the mid 1940s. Well, that same John L. Hutton, and his wife Catherine, were my next door neighbors in Boulder, CO when I was growing up as a kid. I have a shortened Winchester Model 70 .220 Swift barreled action that he stocked sometime after 1942 that I can provide pics of and can fill-in at least a few more details about him that I know first hand. So, if anyone is carrying the torch with Michael's notes, so to speak, I'd be pleased to be in contact with them. Thank you!

Hi Clint,
Thanks for posting. Hutton did some wonderful work during his career. I was unaware that he had migrated west after his time at National Target.

While I know of no one that is following up Michael's work, I think a book on the post-war makers is much needed. Although the number of artists doing quality work in the last 70 years is so large it would be a daunting task. This forum is about the best depository of information that we have. I think I can probably speak for everyone here in saying that we would love to see pictures of your rifle and hear any information that you would be kind enough to share.

Regards,
John

Hi John,
I'd be happy to post pics and what little more I know about John Hutton. Give me a bit to figure out how to do this and I'll get back with you all. Thanks for the encouragement!
Clint

What years were you "growing up as a kid" when Hutton was your neighbor?

OK, I'll try a different question. Was John Hutton the gunsmith who retired to a home up on the mountain behind Shenandoah Guns in Berryville, Virginia? Shop owner Ben Toxvard never referred to him by name, but did tell me that he was the previous owner of the Parker try gun that Ben used in his shop. I deduced that the man on the mountain was previously employed as a gunsmith at Parker-Whelen in Washington, D.C. I have always thought that the man on the mountain was John Hutton. Michael and I had discussed this a bit before he died but never reached a conclusion.

Sorry to seem evasive here gents, but I don't always have all the free time I'd like to hang out here with you all. I am self employed and have a full plate and also a pretty busy personal schedule, so my replies and posts may tend to dribble in as time permits. That is just the way it is!

OK, for the short answer, I was born in 1949. The Hutton's moved into a house next door in 1958. John passed away in the spring of 1965. eightbore, I am not saying that John couldn't have been the gunsmith you are referring to, but I strongly doubt that John Hutton retired to Berryville, Virginia after working for Parker-Whelen because he wasn't really old enough to retire in the middle 1940's, and he had been employed by the National Bureau of Standards in Washington up to at least 1954 when he transferred to a newly built NBS facility which opened in Boulder, CO in 1954 (home of the famous ATOMIC CLOCK, which all world time is set by). I have more info and lots of photos of this gun on my FLICKR picture hosting web site that I'll provide a link for you to see. I'll also try a post at least one stock photo here:
[img:left]https://www.flickr.com/photos/cgm-gunstockcheckering/26850262197/in/album-72157692997236912/[/img]

Howdy gents. In trying to post a pic according to the instructions on the FAQ page in my last reply of today, I could find no "File Manager" link on the "Full Reply" or "New Post" page. Going by the info up near the top of the FAQ page for adding a pic, all it seemed to do was post the link, but if you click on it , it will take you where you want to go.

Here is the rest of what info I have put together regarding John L. Hutton. The info is also on my FLICKR web site, along with over 150 photos of the stock, rifle and shortened Model 70 action this stock is fitted too, but is likely to be easier for you to read about here.

I'll post the link to the photos first: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cgm-gunstockcheckering/sets/72157692997236912


Now the info:
John L. Hutton (4-2018)

I recently got this unusual, one-of-a-kind, Winchester Model 70 .220 Swift with a �Hutton� custom stock from my dad. He purchased it from John Hutton�s wife, Catherine, sometime soon after John had passed away early in 1965, so it�s been in my family for a while. The Hutton�s were our next door neighbors when I grew up as a kid in Boulder, CO. I was born in 1949 and my dad built our house at 811 Hawthorne Ave. and finished it in 1952. The Hutton�s house was built next door at 803 Hawthorne Ave. in 1958, and since my dad and I can�t remember anyone else ever living there other than John and Catherine, so I will assume that they were our neighbors since that time. The National Bureau of Standards (now the National Institute of Standards and Technology � aka NIST) opened a new facility in Boulder in 1954, and John was transferred to Boulder from the main NBS facility in the Washington, D.C. area where he had been working. He was the supervisor of the machine shop at NBS Boulder. So, when the Hutton�s actually moved to Boulder is unknown to me, but it was likely to have been sometime between 1954 and 1958. Catherine Hutton passed away in 1982.

My father remembers that John had told him that once he had previously been a furniture maker and that his specialty had been the making of �Queen Ann� legs for chairs. Whether that had been in Scotland or here in the U.S., or both, is unknown. John was a rather portly gentleman when I knew him growing up, and Catherine had told my brother and I that despite how he looked then, John evidently had been quite a good rugby player back in Scotland during his younger years. I can remember John often speaking of Col. Townsend Whelen in conversations he and my dad often had about various rifles. I had always been under the impression that John had apprenticed as a stock maker back in Scotland, but that may not be the case. I am fortunate to been given have John�s checkering cradle, some of his stock making tools, his wooden tool box (which he told me he made once he finished his stock making apprenticeship) and some of his gun books. Every year at Christmas, Catherine made our family a box of homemade Scottish shortbread � the very best melt-in-your-mouth shortbread that you could imagine!!!! I can remember seeing John often sitting out on his backyard flagstone patio (that my brother and I re-grouted one summer) on most pleasant Colorado evenings in an Adirondack chair sipping an ice-cold high-ball.

What makes this rifle a little out of the ordinary is that the action has been shortened by ��. The front-to-rear trigger guard screw spacing is 6-3/4�, rather than the normal 7-1/2� for a standard pre-64 Model 70. That means the bolt, the follower, the magazine box and the floor plate all had to be shortened or remade shorter as well, (see relative photos), which would have been no small task. I have had others familiar with welding look at this action, and the conclusion is that it was expertly done. My brother said he remembered hearing that this work was done by the Winchester Custom Shop, but that is news to me. I know of no way to verify who actually did this metal work or when it was done.

According to the action�s serial number, 21312, which indicates a 1938 date of manufacture (according to WACA and BlueBook/Fjestad) or 1939 (according to G. Madis - 1of1000). From what I can gather on-line, the barrel stamp 42 indicates that the barrel was made in 1942, (see relative photos). This would indicate to me that the action work was done after 1938/9 and the barrel could not have been put on this action prior to 1942. The stock was made specifically to fit this short action, but not necessarily this barrel. If you look at the photos showing the �Hutton� stamp inside the stock behind the recoil lug, you can see where a block of wood has been expertly inset/inletted into the stock along both sides of and under the barrel�s chamber area. This would seem to indicate that at one time maybe a barrel with a larger chamber diameter was originally fitted to this action and stock, and that possibly this action originally sported another barrel of some sort.

This .220 Swift barrel is 25-5/16� long, 1.140� in diameter at the action face and 0.582� in diameter at the muzzle. It is 4-1/4� from the action face to the center of the barrel boss, which seems to match with another standard Model 70 stock I slipped these action components into for comparison, (see relative photos). I have attempted to document this rifle and stock with many photos, some of which may be redundant, taken over several sessions. During disassembly, I cleaned and oiled the metal works and I applied Kramer�s Antique Improver to clean and add moisture to the dry original stock finish.

The 8X Unertl scope pictured was purchased new by John in the early 1960�s, for $90. He originally put it on a different rifle that I was purchasing from him (using an informal time payment plan) at that time for $90, (he gave me the rifle and sold me the scope). This was an 1898 Krag with an R.F. Sedgley barrel chambered in what was a pretty new round at the time it was made, the .219 Zipper. I was told that the stock had been made by one of John�s friends, a Col. Eddie Brown and sported 12 LPI checkering, for a good grasp! The barrel has a 1-16� twist, so accuracy is hit-or-miss with anything over 50 grain bullets.

As far as I can recall, my dad may have only taken this Hutton stocked .220 Swift rifle out and fired it on one occasion, when I was in my later teens. Now, I just look forward to when I can find the time to take it out and shoot it myself!


I'd welcome any comments or speculations about this rifle that any of you may wish to make. Thanks for reading through all this!
Clint

Well that is certainly a Hutton. Very nice and unusual rifle. Thank you for all the pictures and story. Some real work went into shortening that action, and that was before the days of TIG welding. Nice to have some information about Huttons later years.

Regards,
John

Thanks, this is one of the best threads that I've seen in a long time. Michael would have loved it. I am sure that he would have been on the phone with you. Those are great photographs as well. Do you have any tips for taking them?

I don't know if you live in the Kansas City area, but if you do, please come to the Missouri Valley gun show at the end of July, a number of the members of this forum attend and display there.

Beautiful stock, and the inletting is as good as any I've seen!

It is amazing workmanship for sure.

For some reason, I really like that buttplate. A lot of work went into that for some reason.

That's a heck of a rifle.

Howdy PhysDoc,
Thank you for your sincere compliment, sir. I am very glad that a few have gotten something out of my small effort here.

I do a lot of gun photography related to my work, so I have a semi-permanent setup that I use. I have two vertical diffusor panels erected parallel to one another and about 1-1/2 feet apart to the right and left of the gun I am photographing. These panels are each about a foot high and 2-1/2 feet wide. They are each supported by a free standing PVC tubular framework. I have two electronic flashes set about 1-1/2 feet from the outside of each panel and about 2 feet off the floor. Each flash has a small diffusion panel attached to it's front and the flash units are angled down so that some of the light passes through the diffusion panel, and some passes over the closest panel and hits the inside of the further panel and bounces back in towards the gun. This happens from both sides and results in very complimentary lighting for gun photography.
I have experimented with all sorts of diffusion material and found that the white thin foam sheeting, used for packing material and often referred to as ChemSeal, works very well. Other things such as some types of shower curtains can also work well. If I knew how to post pics here, I would, but so far that ability alludes me completely.

Yes, I am in the KC area, in an exurb just to the SE. I have been an MVACA member for about 20 years and have a met a few of you.

Clint, to see how to post photos directly to the list, just high "quick quote" button on the lower right hand corner of this post and you will see how it is done.


By the way, is that round circle in the cheekpiece a knot, or did some youngster with a Sharpie get after it?

Howdy BrentD,
Yes, that butt plate is a humdinger alright! It was made in Germany, and I wish I knew where/how to get some more of them!
Thanks too for the help with picture posting. I see that you could do it! I get the idea, but I just must have left something small out when I tried it. I'll give it another try here soon.
Yes, that anomaly is a knot!

I posted another comment on the "M22 Gibson" thread.

Hey BrentD, I am trying to post a photo showing where the other end of the knot comes out. It appears as a small circle right beneath the circular area you asked about, under the lower edge of the cheek piece in the concaved sculpted area. I hope this works. Thanks again!
ClintM

Perfect! You have the photo thing figured out. Thanks for the follow up.

Hey guys,
I do have a couple of other new images to show off! I just got back on Jun 13 from a second trip to Colorado to pick up the last of my dad's stuff that my brother had set aside for me. When I got to looking through my 'loot' yesterday, in it I found John Hutton's stock stamp. I am dead certain that it is the same stamp he used inside my Model 70 stock and the Hutton stock shown in Michael Petrov's second book.

Could you have possibly also found the "Gibson" stamp? I apologize for stalling in posting pictures of the Gibson stamped M22 that I promised. All attempts to place Gibson at the Parker-Whelen shop have failed. All assistance would be appreciated.

Beautiful rifle & pictures. Love the conversion to short action.

I notice the Bbl and the action both carry a Winchester 'Postal' proof mark 'P in an Oval' indicating a separate part sold unfitted from the Service/Repair Dept if I understand it right,,and a factory finished firearm proof mark,,the standard WP in an oval.

I don't think I've ever seen that before nor can I think of why both would be there unless the customer purchased parts (bbl and rcv'r) went back to factory once assembled for some sort of work that then required a (re)proof.
Maybe that was the welding work some have said might have been done at the Winchester factory?

Just speculating of course, but the duel proofs on both the bbl and rcv'r caught my attention.

The bbl date on the bottom of the bbl is year the bbl itself was made, (19)42.

Very interesting post and back story.
Thank You!

Howdy Kutter,
Thanks for your observation! No one else has pointed that out. Now I wonder what that implies?
Glad you enjoyed the post!

eightbore, sorry to not have replied sooner. Nope, the Hutton stamp was all I found. Not sure why Hutton would have had another man's stamp. I would deem that highly unlikely....., but you never know!

Kutter, thanks for your observation! What this implies just adds to the mystery, which never occurred to me!

Why? Because I suspect that both men worked in the same shop, National Target and Parker Whelen. I suspect my M22 and the pictured gun came from the same hand, or a cooperation of the two hands.

Howdy again gents,
I kinda hate to bring up such an old thread again, but felt it was better to do that than to start a new one with just an added photo, thus keeping the info more together. I received the Hutton stocked Winchester Model 70 short action rifle this thread is about from my dad in March of 2017.

My dad, who was a WWII and Korean War vet, passed away at about 11:00 AM on 11-11-2018 (interesting that it was exactly 100 years after, almost to the minute, the signing the peace treaty ending WWI on what used to be known as Armistice Day). On my last trip to CO to see him while he was in hospice care in early Nov., my brother gave me some of the last things dad had kept for himself when first going into an assisted living facility. In that box was a photo which included the Hutton�s, my family and other Hutton friends, taken in the Hutton's back yard maybe during the summer of 1963, as I looked to be around 14 years old. This is also the only photo I have found so far that my family had showing the Hutton�s.

[img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/cgm-gunstockcheckering/45341620554/sizes/c/[/img]

The folks in this photo are, from L to R: John L. Hutton, possibly a niece of the Hutton's (whose name is unknown to me), Catherine Hutton (pet name - Totie), myself, my brother Norbert, my father Dave, my mother Lottie, a machinist Cap Shepard (who worked for John at the NBS machine shop) and friends Johnnie & Marie Jenkins. All those known in this photo are now deceased except for my brother and me.

The following photo has been cropped from the original:

[img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/cgm-gunstockcheckering/31127240627/sizes/c/ [/img]


Incidentally, I use MS Edge for my browser, and I have tried everything that I could read here on how to post photos in this thread, and none of the instructions work for me. All I can get is for a link to appear. The instructions in the FAQ section don't work and neither do those posted by D. Weber in the DoubleGun FAQ forum section.Any help would be appreciated for next time. Thanks!
Clint M

PS: Another forum member indicated that he could not see the photos after clicking on the links. I tried it myself and could not see them the first time either, but upon closing the window and clicking the same links again, the photos showed up immediately. Not sure what gives!!!
Clint M