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This Two Iron Crolle also appears to have a indistinct weld line down the middle of each scroll, though the ribband weld is more obvious


Last edited by revdocdrew; 06/26/07 11:37 AM.
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Here are the brls on the c. 1890s Greener at Cabelas which is being discussed on another thread



Much less symmetric and 'more open' scroll pattern but with the same weld line in the middle of each scroll. I believe this is also Two Iron crolle and both white and black 'crosses' can be seen (it helps to 'zoom' the pic.)

Last edited by revdocdrew; 06/27/07 04:06 PM.
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Yet another Baker. This one is at Cabelas.



Pete

PeteM #46037 06/29/07 10:04 AM
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That's an interesting one Pete and may be "Twist Damascus", laminated One Iron Crolle and Twist.

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Gloria a Dios, good things come from persistance
Now we have an explanation for 'Laminated Steel', and much more!

http://books.google.com/books?id=-QUtAAA...I6tLQ#PPA160,M1

Journal of The Federation of Insurance Institutes of Great Britain and Ireland, 1904 "Gun and Small-Arms Factories" by A.E. Patrick, p. 149-175
From 'Gun Barrels' starting on p. 159:

The iron for the manufacture of sporting gun barrels was formerly made from finest scrap iron, such as old horse-shoes, nail stubs and the like. In preparing the metal for the old-fashioned laminated steel barrels, a number of scraps were collected of various proportions, the clippings of saws, steel pens, and scraps of best iron, which were placed for some time in a shaking barrel for cleansing, and then hand picked, in order that any pieces which had the appearance of cast iron might be removed. They were then cut into pieces of the same size, melted together, gathered into a bloom, and the mass placed under a tilt hammer, welded into a block of iron which was immediately rolled into bars. The bars were then cut into regular lengths, and the required quantity laid together and fastened into a faggot, this faggot was again heated in the furnace and hammered and rolled into rods of the size required by the barrel welders. The supply of fine old scrap does not now meet the demand, so at the present time the metal for gun barrels is made from a mixture of the best iron ores. The iron is made into rods, and subjected to hammering and rolling, which condenses the metal and increases the ductility and tenacity by elongating and densifying the fibres. The faggots are heated and welded seven times during the process of manufacture of the best barrel metal. The iron for the manufacture of gun barrels is made in square rods of various thicknesses for the best barrels, and in flat rods for plain twist or scelp barrels. To give the Damascus figure the square rods are first twisted, the operation being carefully overlooked to guard against one portion being twisted more rapidly than the other. This process is repeated until the rod is perfectly twisted and a regular figure in the barrel insured. It is this twisting of the rods that makes the difference between a best barrel and a common one. All Damascus barrels must be made of twisted rods. Plain twist or scelp barrels are made from plain straight rods or ribands. It is the twist in the rods that cause the figure to appear in the barrels and all iron so twisted is called "Damascus," from the town Damascus, where a similar process was first practised for the far-famed Damascus sword blades. The prepared rod is either joined to other rods or coiled and welded into a barrel singly. Damascus barrels are made from one, two, or three twisted rods, and occasionally the Continental makers use four to six rods together. The Damascus barrels, as made in England, are usually manufactured from three twisted rods, which is quite sufficient to form a very fine figure in the barrel. Laminated steel barrels are twisted and the rods welded in the same manner as the Damascus, but the rods are composed of superiour metal containing a larger percentage of steel. The rods having been twisted and the required number welded together, they are then rolled at a red heat into ribands. The ribands are then twisted into spiral form, again heated, and the coil well hammered until thoroughly welded. The proportionate amounts of the different descriptions of metal in a barrel determine its quality. Best English Damascus and modern laminated steel contain 60 per cont. of steel. The amount of steel is determined upon before making the metal into faggots for the last time. If for scelp barrels, the strips of iron are twice the thickness of the steel, the faggots being formed of alternate layers of iron and steel. In single iron Damascus barrels the proportion of iron is not much less than the steel, and although not passing through so many processes as the best barrels, is still far superiour in quality to ordinary iron. In twisting the rods every care is taken to keep the edges of the iron and steel strips to the outside, for it is the twisting of the different metals that gives the various figures in the finished barrel. The steel being hard, resists the acids employed in the browning process and retains a white or light brown hue, whilst the iron, or softer metal, is so acted upon by the acid as to be changed into a dark brown or black colour. There is nothing in the process calling for any particular notice as far as fire risk is concerned. If in a suitable building there is no more risk than in a smithy, and in the whole course of my insurance experience I can only remember having one claim for a smithy being destroyed.

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The Birmingham Proof House Test of 1891

As published in The Field, and reproduced in Double Gun Classics http://www.doublegunclassics.com/alt/DGCJanFeb06.pdf

The strongest of 39 barrel steels tested were:
1. English machine forged 3 rod Laminated steel
2. English fluid compressed steel, Whitworth process (fluid steel)
3. English machine forged 2 rod Best Damascus
4. English steel Siemens - Martin process (fluid steel)
5. English hand forged 4 rod Best Damascus
6. English machine forged 2 rod variegated Damascus
7. English machine forged 3 rod Best Damascus
8. English carburised steel, Darby’s method
9. English machine forged 2 rod Laminated steel
10. English “Superior Barrel Steel”
11. English machine forged chequered 3 rod Damascus
12. Foreign steel, Siemens – Martin process
13. English steel, hematite process, from pig and scrap

18. Foreign “Pointille’” Twist

24 & 25. Foreign 3 rod and 4 rod “Crolle’”
26. English machine forged 4 rod “Boston” Damascus

32. English machine forged 2 rod “Boston” Damascus

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OK, now it is obvious that there is a difference between twist and laminated. I have been grouping the two together as if they were more or less the same. It is apparent from the above excerpt that there is a big difference. How can you tell them apart?


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Twist



Laminated




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Originally Posted By: revdocdrew
The Birmingham Proof House Test of 1891

As published in The Field, and reproduced in Double Gun Classics http://www.doublegunclassics.com/alt/DGCJanFeb06.pdf

The strongest of 39 barrel steels tested were:

1. English machine forged 3 rod Laminated steel

9. English machine forged 2 rod Laminated steel




How do you tell the differnce between #1 and #9 Laminated Steel ?





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I see the two barrels that came in last were named "Boston" Damascus...You think it was named "Boston" Damascus because it was heading across the Atlantic ?

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