doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Who all used lindner actions besides Daly?

another Overbaugh

I'm late to the thread :-). Daryl and Drew hit most of them. Two more -

- William R. Schaefer & Son - Boston (just a timing thing based on William bringing a son into the business)

- E.C. Schmidt - Boston (former William R. Schaefer & Son head gunmaker)

I have a hammer gun by R.F. Schaefer , Boston. It has a pinned forend and firing pins of early design. Belgian marks. Where does he fit into the Schaefer group. I'd say it is a very early gun.

Gentlemen,
Is there any thing out there, information wise, that says that these makers actually built these guns from supplied actions & barrels (in the white) or if they just retailed finished guns that were imported with their names on them?

Daryl,

While Richard F. ("Dick") Schaefer was William R. Schaefer's second son (John Frederick ("Rudolph") Schaefer being the first), and he was formally trained by his father as a gun maker, the production date of your hammer gun may not jive with the Richard Schaefer being the "maker" - i.e., Dick would have been awfully young at the time. I'm not sure what to make of the disconnect. I can conjur up some explanations, but I'd be guessing.

LeFusil,

While I believe many Lindner-made guns were simply retailed by others in the US, I believe others were completed/finished in the US to some degree. I should probably replace the word "many" to "most" in the previous sentence as Schoverling, Daly, & Gales (SD&G) was the biggest seller of Lindner-sourced guns. I don't believe SD&G finished any Daly guns in the US.

I do think other US-based "makers" actually did complete/finish Lindner-sourced guns (action/barrels). Specifically, IMO William R. Schaefer & Son did more than retail already completed guns. Michael Petrov and I traded lots of emails on this topic and that is the conclusion we came to. Depending on the time frame, W.R. Schaefer employed 4-7 (mostly German) gunsmiths/gunmakers (according to Census records) so he certainly had the capability. Period periodicals refer to the large workshop and the company workmen "making guns."

When I sit period-similar Daly and Schaefer & Son guns next to each other, there are some subtle differences. While this might be the natural variation in the gun making, there were subtle differences in the stocking and other minor features to convince me that some work had been done in the US on the Lindner-source barrels and actions. Any of course, the earlier Schaefer hammer guns were "made" in the US.

The existing literature on William R. Schaefer is very thin. I have had a two-part article sitting at 70% completion for about three years. I need to get off my butt and finish it. Schaefers are some of favorite guns.

Ken

Thank you. Very interesting indeed. I appreciate your research and educated opinions. I smile every time I see the mention of an old name here, Mike Petrov was a good dude. I met him in person at his home in Anchorage in 2007, it was a memorable visit for sure.

I�m in 100% agreement with your assessment on Lindner marked actions bearing American makers/stores names. It just makes sense.

Can you answer this question now.....is there any evidence at all that Lindner had the facilities to actually manufacture complete guns (forging to finished) in house? Everything single thing I�ve read and the pictures I�ve seen of the Lindner House/factory, points to no. The operation just wasn�t that big. It seems to me that Lindner was more than likely a finisher of guns. Thoughts?

I'll throw in my 1� worth. In 1905 or thereabouts, H.A. Lindner name a big expansion in anticipation of his son Ernst Linder(6.07.1883-16.06.1915) obtaining his master mechanic's sheepskin. Although regarding the forgings, they would have held w/ Schilling who had the machinery until that source terminated.

I do believe that Josef Jakob put his finishing touch on his wares. But with all that said. H.A. Lindner's Quality Control Stamp/Mark is seen on most if not all of Jakob's wares so my question would be @ what point in manufacture would H.A. Lindner apply his quality seal of approval.


For now I think S,D & G learned their craft of sourcing from
B�ker where both Schoverling & Daly both served a stint. From that Daly, either thru Schoverling's contacts or other had a huge importing umbrella where they fed the hunger of the American retailers. IF not, whey would they fight so hard for rough tubes, etc in the Tariff fight?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Once again I cannot say enough about Larry B. Schuknecht's efforts to keep Mr. Dietrich's dream alive.



See Nr. 17 after Nr. 29 Original Krieghoff factory & prior to Nr. 17 August Menz home:

http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/travel-...makers-in-suhl/

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

H.A. Lindner's quarters were near Stadtpark & across the street from H�nel's concern as well as very near the Old Jail, which is now an archive. So, I'd say there is good probability that the Lindner's records might be resting there.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Lefusil - I agree with your point that Lindner should not be thought of as a "maker" in the same sense that you might think of J.P. Sauer as a "maker" for example. Heinrich was certainly bringing in action forgings, ,barrels, etc., and of course, the volume of guns he "made" were orders of magnitude less than the big German names. Based on Hans Pfingsten's research, Lindner used a network of his own staff (6-12) plus outworkers to complete/finish the guns.

The gray area in these discussions is always on the definition of what constitutes a "gun maker" and where a particular maker falls on that spectrum - from doing absolutely everything in-house at one end to simply engraving one's name on the action on the other.