doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hollenbeck / Royal Gun Co Drilling #1518

Thank you, sirs. Excellent information.

I will go as lightly as possible on modifications, though if the factory sights prove too difficult for me to see I may still have to figure out some way to put an aperture sight on it. Perhaps a period tang sight installed by a competent professional would not detract too much, if there's room.

I don't do any high volume reloading, but I do have a couple of single stage presses for working up accuracy loads, and a 12ga MEC press that I hardly ever use (somewhere; I've been planning to convert it to .410 but I never seem to get around to it). If all else fails and the chamber is < 2.75", maybe I can get that thing to load shells cut down to 2 5/8". It fares rather poorly at starting new crimps, though, and does much better on pre-fired hulls....

I guess back in this gun's day, the standard .30-30 load was still 160gn JSP... Over, what would be the closest powder still made, IMR3031? It will be interesting to work up a load that will work well with this gun's regulation.

So, it sounds like the jury is hung on whether it would be safe to occasionally put a 1oz slug in a shotgun barrel (something that I occasionally like to do with my 2-barrel combinations; we have weird laws about not hunting small game on the opening 3 days of deer season and other silliness). It sounds to me like the Krupp fluid steel was the strongest barrel that they offered, and that vintage shells were higher pressure than modern, so if everything is tight and the breech is on-face, it sounds like it would be safe (even if not very accurate in a full choke). On the other hand, 100+ year old gun, with 100+ year old wood.... But on the other-other hand, if everything is in good condition, then what could go wrong? ...... ... . Probably best to err of the side of caution, regardless, I suppose........

Thanks again, folks!

Edit: Thanks Keith. You posted before I'd finished writing this, heh. I'll be sure to stick to the lighter loads.

One of the guns I looked at a few years ago had a recoil lug installed. Must have been an attempt to prevent the furniture problems that you mention.

Again. I would never want to discourage. I have a nice process and recipe with a Mec 600 jr for 2.5 in shells if interested. And would shoot the rifle but try reduced recoil loads if you don�t reload and you can find them. If not let it rip I can�t imagine you will be putting a lot through it.

Well, I certainly don't want to smash the wood to bits, it's far too nice looking a piece of wood for that. This was a significant problem with the Savage 24s, too (which is why my crappy truck & tractor gun, a .30-30/20ga, has a wad of electrical tape wrapped 'round the wrist, heh). But it also cost beer money and was a "junk gun" to begin with, so....

The vast vast majority of my shotgunning involves clays with wimpy target loads. Then each year there's probably two dozen rounds of #4 heavy game loads killing squirrels for the pot and maybe a turkey (though I don't hardly like to eat them enough to have to bother with cleaning them up), a round or two of #5 bismuth, and maybe one slug every 2-3 years (outside of steel-ringing funtime).

I also like to load a 00 buckshot into a .30-30 case (it's oversize, but trims a ring like when loading a C&B revolver), over .7cc of Unique with a tuft of dacron to keep the powder back at the primer for consistency. Shoots about like a .22, but quieter and maybe not quite as far before dropping off, and is extremely accurate through that old Savage 24. I have to wonder if that would lead to squibs in a 28" barrel, though. Surely not, I guess, and I always look down the bore religiously anyway, just in case....

I bought a super rare (1 of 1) three barrel gun from Andrews last year. I wanted it bad, but It went back the day after i received it. For glaring issues that were inexcusable coming from a gunsmith. Pitted bores that were described as not pitted and ribs loose as could be at the muzzle. I dont know how you miss that one either. Unless you are looking at it in the dark.



I do not see the three barrel guns as the best option for installing scopes on. It would mean either ghetto jobbing something that will seriously compromising the functionality of it was a wingshooter. Or doing something extremely custom that would heavily modify the gun and be expensive. If you have to have a scope on a driliing, going with a German gun already setup for one on claw mounts would be a better option.

I've shot several rounds of skeet with my Crescent Steel barrel Grade 1 which shipped 4-6-1910, using my 7/8 ounce 1200 fps reloads in Remington STS hulls. Remington 209P primer, 16.4 grains of Clays, Remington TGT12S wad and 7/8 ounce of shot. This load lists at 6300 psi. After I got the gun I picked up ten boxes of .32-40 ammunition and some new brass, but here 19 years later I've still not yet fired the rifle barrel.

My two-part article on these companies was in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Thirteen, Issues 2 and 3. There was an article on a very interesting one of these guns fitted with a Miller single trigger in the Arms Gazette for September 1978, and one in The American Rifleman for June 1964.

Re: Sights (albeit a bit off-topic, haha) -

Although it doesn't come on and off very quickly, I really like the return-to-zero scope arrangement on the Valmet 412. Mine wears a 1-4x Leupold (though the .30-06 is a little better at taking advantage of that scope than a .30-30 would be). For wingshooting with it, though, I usually just install the double 12 or 20ga barrels instead. I really like the gun, but I think the iron sights on the combination barrels are just really terrible; huge and imprecise.

On my Baikal Sever, I removed the factory rear sight and cut a dovetail right at the back of the rib over the chambers, and installed a Williams screw-out aperture in it (just the little windage-adjustable piece that is standard on many of their sights; the front sight adjusts for elevation just like an AK-47 pin). It works well with the factory front sight. For most hunting tasks, I leave a medium aperture screwed in. For wingshooting, I remove the aperture and use the threaded piece as a ghost ring, which works really well (at least until I go to put the aperture back in and realize I've lost it somewhere lol). Maybe works even better than a mid-bead does for me. I'd have liked to use one of the Meritt adjustable apertures, but they're just too big to not interfere with closing the gun up. I had to remove ~0.003 from one side of the regular hunting aperture to keep it from kissing with the gun closed up as it was. Very close fit.

There was a Crescent Steel Co. in Pittsburg in 1908
https://books.google.com/books?id=SjJSAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA477&lpg

Hardware Dealers Magazine June 1908



The rifle barrel was likely Krupp Nickel Steel or Spezial Gewehr Lauf Stahl

Outing 1909 with the Royal SBT

Here are some period .30-30 loads offed by Union Metallic Cartridge Co.

Just for the record, though I suspect most everyone here knows it, the .30-30 did not originate as a black powder load even though the name indicates it. However it is also true that when Win introduced it in 1895 they named it the .30 WCF, not .30-30. Although not proven beyond doubt it is highly suspected that Marlin was the first to use the .30-30 name, not desiring to put a reference to Winchester on their rifles.

Although it has been much debated over the years Dave Scoville of Handloader/Rifle magazines published some data written by Winchester many years ago. They stated emphatically that the .32 WS was brought out with the intent of being able to use factory Smokeless loads of a power level similar to the .30WCF & to be reloaded using black powder to a power level similar to the .32-40. They did not deem the .30WCF to give satisfactory results when loaded with Black.Thus the reason for them bringing out two cartridges of so much the same power. It seems at that point in time there were many who desired this capability. As Black powder use became less & less the .30WCF won the popularity race of the two.

Brought the gun home today, finally. Very exciting.

Unfortunately the weather is too poor outside, and it's too dark inside, for decent pictures.

I am both pleased and disappointed at the same time. The gun appears externally to be in better condition than the pictures appeared. The bluing is really quite good for its age. However, there is a very tiny dent in one barrel (nothing to worry about I don't think, I shoot my model 1912 all the time with a /much/ worse dent) and the rifling at the breech end of the .30-30 barrel is quite weak. I am not sure whether or not it will be able to grab the bullets in time to get them spinning before they are going fast enough to just strip through the rest of the rifling... The usual-with-old-guns very shallow freckles in the shotgun bores, but they are really pretty good.

I guess we'll find out. :P Hopefully I can post some photos in a day or three.