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1 members (buckstix),
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10 |
Hello Everyone, My father had this gun in his house for about 30 years, and I recently inherited it. I was wondering if anyone knew the details about it, and its approximate value. I have attached various pictures of the proof marks, etc. On top of the barrel, covered by the scope mounts, reads "...ER & Sohne, Kriensen". From the research that I have done, I believe it is a Burgmuller & Sohne, made in Kriensen, Germany? Any other help would be great - thanks in advance! [img] https://imgur.com/NmJME8Y[/img] 
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Joined: Feb 2018
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Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10 |
Sorry pics didn't work but i'll figure it out.
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10 |
OK, I failed! Can I use Imgur to post pics? Only the link is showing up, but I want the actual pictures in this thread so that they are easier for everyone to see.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
Looks like a Z-M reproof in 1943?
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Feb 2018
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Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10 |
Alright, let's try the pictures once again:
[img:center]http://https://imgur.com/a/UTWGM[/img]
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
One can view them images of the Hahn Drilling: https://imgur.com/a/UTWGMCheers, Raimey rse
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Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2018
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
  Can you pleasure us w/ a better image of the above where there are characters to the right of 843 & above the 16.65 on the extractor? Cheers, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
I can't make out the Suhl mechanic's name in lower case. Looks like either Backmann or Ga????mann???? or Gynammnamm. Most difficult to discern. Apply some chalk or soap & hopefully it will ferret out the characters.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Feb 2018
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Boxlock
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Boxlock
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Tremendous thanks Raimey! You are correct; it's very hard to read, but i'll try your chalk/soap trick tomorrow and will post pics.
BA
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
BA:
Very easily it could have been retailed by Burgmüller & Sohne, Kriensen. I believe Sohne was added in 1908?
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,461 Likes: 207 |
I agree the gun was Marketed by Burgsmueller& Sohn, proofed in Suhl sometime between 1911/12 and 1922/23. It was reproofed in Zella Mehlis in 1943. The 9.3x72 and 16.65 stamps are problematical. They don't seem workmanlike enough to be from the proofhouse, I wonder if they were placed there by an owner. The 8.8 is consistent with other Suhl proofs from 1911/12(later they added case length). It was reproofed under the 1939 law which required caliber designation in common use form.
Mike
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Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10 |
I took some pics tonight of the writing using some paint to highlight the lettering, but it is still very hard to read. Under a magnifying glass, it looks like "Gqranrmann" or "Gyirainmann". Someone on another site said that it may be Cyrillic? Once again, I tried loading the pics, but now I get the message that "IE blocked a pop up from Computer One" when I click the add image icon. Anyway, I added them to the album in ellenbr's link above or at the address below. https://imgur.com/a/UTWGMThanks again for your help. Any ideas on value (can I sell it and retire, or buy a small Caribbean island)?
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
  Cheers, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
There was a Hugo Grassmann and a Paul Grassmann that were mechanics in Zella - Mehlis.
G. Gressmann.....
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10 |
BA:
Very easily it could have been retailed by Burgmüller & Sohne, Kriensen. I believe Sohne was added in 1908?
Cheers,
Raimey
rse Raimey, as far as I can see, it was in 1929 1929 Umfirmierung in H. Burgsmüller & Söhne GmbH Cheers, Wolfgang
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
Many thanks Wolfgang for the effort. I've seen a couple listings & one noted that in 1906 that the sons Karl & Wilhelm of Burgsmüller were taken on as stakeholders. Then in 1908 son Wilhelm hit the road to hang out his own gunmaking shingle leaving Karl w/ the reins of the company. Might need to get Moose Snoot on the search????
Karl or Karl Junior just might have taken over in 1918?
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
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Raimey, I think I made a mistake. We have to differ between the Gewehrfabrik and the Maschinenfabrik. The latter was, which I wrote.
For the Gewehrfabrik look here: https://www.booklooker.de/Bücher/Deutsche-Waffen-Fahrrad-Fabriken-H-Burgsmüller-Söhne-Kreiensen-Gewehrfabrik+Moderne-Waffen/id/A0283ad801ZZ7
The catalogue is from 1910...! So you probably are right.
Chgeers,
Wolfgang
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742 |
very pitted outside, hope the rifle bore is better kept. The shotgun bore can usually be honed if necessary. Is the action good and tight? Good luck with a family heirloom! Steve
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Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10 |
Thanks for everyone's replies. Any idea on what a fair market ballpark price would be?
ba
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 284 Likes: 25
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 284 Likes: 25 |
Ba, everyone has been sidestepping it but if the bores are anywhere as rust pitted as the rest you might be optimistically looking at a $100 wall hanger over the fireplace.
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10 |
Thanks for the information, everyone! I'll try to get a picture of the bores for your assessment. They actually look pretty smooth and shiny to my untrained eye. My goal is to sell this for a fair price (without seeing it in a year from now on "Antiques Roadshow" for $500,000! lol)to someone who wants a restoration project.
BA
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