doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com 9.3mm x 72mm R - CAST SLUGS (PROJECTILE) SOURCE

I am looking for a source for cast slugs. The slug type is 250 grain, round nose, .357-.358 diameter. The firearm I am loading for is a SxS 9.3mm (actually slugged at .357"-.358") and 2 1/2" 16 gauge hammer foresters gun (BUCHSFLINTE). If anyone has information about bullet molds as well that would be good too although I would rather not cast my own bullets I would consider it as an option. Thanks in advance. Doug K

Hum, I think Ford pointed me to 38 calibre bullets? Or maybe it was 0.357? Have you searched in that direction before considering a molding effort?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Might you have a 9x72R and not a 9.3x72R.

If the Barrel is stamped �8,7��That is the German proofing (Bore) Calibre Marking for a Rifle Nominal Barrel in 9mm,

The Lyman 358318 mould is what you want

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?ma...5tj3d0ondhisp42

The Lyman 358009 mould would do just fine

http://www.westernbullet.com/ly3gr25.html

Mike

Doug,
Skeettx's suggestion of Lyman 358318 is precisely the bullet you asked about. 9.3x72R rifles are found with groove diameters from .352"- .375", yours is one of the easiest to find bullets for. I suggest you try also Lyman 358315 or RCBS 38200(?)for 200 grain bullets, which stabilize better in some rifles with a shorter twist. As Raimey suggested, you can also try 38/357 pistol bullets or 35 caliber rifle bullets intended for 35 Remington, especially the new Flex Tip bullet. Since your rifle is marked for an 8.7mm bore diameter, instead of 118,35,it was made after 1911 and may do better with 200 gr bullets.
Mike

Mike, the barrel is clearly stamped 9.3. It has been suggested by others as well that it might be a 9x72R. The gun was apparently made in Ferlach, Austria. It was proofed for nitro at the Ferlach proof house. The commercial 9.3x73R ammo would is unsafe to shoot as the projectiles are .360" or .366" diameter. The 9.3x73R A-zoom test round (snap cap) chambers and extracts easily and is purported to be the exact size of the actual round. Thanks for your help. Doug K

Mike, all the study I have done and people I have contacted who clearly are more informed than I have suggested that the .35 Remington has ballistics closer to the 9.3x72R than other rounds. The 9.3x72R is supposedly a lower pressure round than the .35 Remington. The rifle is clearly marked 9.3 and was likely made in Ferlach, Austria as it was proofed for nitro at the Ferlach proof house given the proof marks. I am unsure of the twist and even more unsure as to how to determine same. Thanks, Doug K

Not a major issue
Use the 9.3x72R dies with a .356 expander button.
And maybe an "M" die to flare the mouth to receive
bullets
Mike

DougK
The Austrians and Germans used different rules in marking their guns(and they changed over time), so an Austrian Gun proofed/re-proofed in Germany may have different marks for the same cartridge. Modern ammo is loaded with a .364-.365" bullet that is especially made to be safe in smaller barrels, such as yours. You can use this ammo in your rifle or handload with the bullets mentioned above. My mention of the 35 Rem. was only for bullets made for it, not ammo.
skeettx,
My dies were born as a 2 die set, but I made it a 3 die set with a "M" die, as you suggest, but I both expand and bell in it.
Mike

YOU are THE MAN
Actually, so do I
The "M" dies sure are helpful.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011246697/lyman-neck-expander-m-die
Mike

p.s. and I often use the 310 or Tru-line sets with the 7/8x14 adapter

Mike, thanks for the info. I have an RCBS 3-die set which has an expander die as I was able to load the rounds. It has a full length sizing/decapping die, however, the base of the case is not resized completely because of the shell holder. As a result the round won't fully chamber. I can close the gun and force the into the chamber. I have an A-Zoom trial round/snap cap in the 9.3x72R that easily chambers. It has been suggested that the gun can be rechambered but given that the round is semi-obsolete I doubt anyone would even possess a chamber reamer in that caliber anywhere. Regards, Doug K

Mike, I found this discussion on the Cast Boolits discussion board just this morning. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?75108-9-3x72R&s=1c8d7bfae4fd492f551a47597ee3e683. It appears that some Austrian gun makers made their guns 9.3x72R with a 2-taper chamber so that they could sell proprietary dies and ammo. Based on this and the fact my full length resized rounds won't fully chamber I suspect my gun may be one of these. Regards, Doug K

Doug K:

Just curious but have you made a chamber cast to verify any of the oddities?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

DougK
Actually, there were different versions of 9.3x72R available, 9.3x72R D (Deutsch), 9.3x72R E(English), 9.3x72R N( NORM.- standardized)( this was designed to fit most of the others and allow easily reaming the chambers of the rest to fit), and 9.3x72R S&S (Sauer and Son)( an entirely different cartridge based on a larger diameter case). From your description, it seems you may have a "D" version rifle, which is the "2-taper chamber" mentioned. Modern ammunition is the "N" version. Of course, absent a chamber cast, there is no way to know what you have. In my experience, if a cartridge is fired in a "D" chamber( by resizing or forcing it in), then it is fireformed to the chamber and can be loaded with "N" dies, which would function as neck sizing dies. If your load expands the head diameter enough to make chambering difficult, it is likely too hot. I suspect it is something else causing the interference. You can "smoke" a case or color it with a magic marker and push it in with some force. When you extract it, it should show the location of the interference. You might be surprised how many 9.3x72R reamers exist.
Mike

Here is one cheap trick
Get a second shell holder, grind a few thousandths off
the top of the holder so the die can sit lower.
See how this works for your firearm.
Mike

DougK,
You can do the same thing Skeettx mentioned by putting any flat piece of steel on top of the shell holder to push the case all the way up to the rim, into the die. You can do this to see if that is the problem, then decide what to do about the shell holder. A thinned shell holder and stuck case=busted shell holder. BTY, if you try either suggestion, remove the expander so you can drive a stuck case out. I use a "pusher" I made up with a flat top and the bottom like a shell holder, it works for everything ( but I have to drive all cases out). On reflection and going back to your first post, I wonder if using a 250gr bullet in a chamber cut for a 200 or 193 gr bullet is the cause of your problem. I suggest you smoke the bullet of one of your handloads and chamber it. When you extract the cartridge, check the bullet for bright marks caused by the lands in the barrel.
Mike

Der Ami and Skeetx, which size or caliber Lyman M die do you use with your 9.3 x 72r for reloading?

Thanks, Ron

Apparently Midway doesn't carry it but Lyman does make a 9.3 M die.

I think it could be a good idea to contact Lyman directly. Some folks have reported ordering the particular size that they want for a very modest price. I'd figure out what basic expanding diameter I'd want and then let Lyman pick the diameter of the larger step. Could maybe let them know how deep the bullet will be seated, unless someone wanted it deep in the case past the neck. Sometimes the cast bullet is larger than the bore diameter, for good reason, and the expander could be sized for the bullet and not just generically for the stamped caliber.

Ron,
I just use an "M" die body I had on hand with a "shopmade"(read home made) expander stem, made to fit the bullet and bell the case. I just left the expander stem in the sizing die, but with a smaller( don't remember diameter)expander button; just to hold the depriming pin in. Sometimes I deprime by hand and leave the stem out of the sizing die.
"A lathe is a requirement of life"
Mike

Thanks everyone for the suggestions on the M dies. I have a small lathe so was thinking about trying to make my own expander stem. Didn't seem like a difficult project.

Ron

Ron,
If I remember correctly the die is threaded 1/2"-20, so you should be able to use a common 1/2-20 bolt to make your expander. An old machinist trick to make a threaded item "run true" is to turn a threading die onto the thread and then "chuck" the threading die in the lathe. Since threading dies(not rethreading dies) are split, they will close on the thread( when the chuck is tightened) and keep the bolt from unscrewing itself.
Mike

If you have an inexpensive Lee universal expander, you could consider making m-style expanders for it instead of the Lyman body. Places like NOE molds and Track of the Wolf have pictures of and sell expanders for the Lee die body. Maybe, an easier project since you don't have to internal thread and keep the outside concentric. They are so basic, but inexpensive at totw that a person might just start with an oversized one instead of round bar stock. Once you setup to make the expanders for either die body, you might make extras a thousanth over and under sized to tweak you loads if the neck tension changes for a bunch of possible reasons. Best of luck with it.

edit to add, I noticed Mike's comment, and I thinks it's spot on for making that style of expander, create a jig that's quick and easy to true to hold your work.

Bullet selection for .358 bullets is sure more comprehensive than for 9,3...you are lucky to have lots of choices.