doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com SDH and Shooting Sportsman

It has taken a while but a lot of folks have noticed my absence from Shooting Sportsman and are asking about it. My last story was in the Jan/Feb. 2017 issue.

Although I greatly enjoyed researching, writing and photographing the Fine Gunmaking column the management decided making more money was their first priority. When they forced into retirement the very capable Art Director I had been working with for 20 years it signaled a clue to their intentions.

When they demanded I sign a very lopsided contract and threatened to lower my pay, I left. Clearly the trend in current corporate America of raising the CEOs personal income at the expense of the folks that provide the creativity and do the work is not acceptable to this self-employed freelancer's notion of fairness.

I continue to write the Custom Shop column for Sports Afield about custom hunting rifles. And I am open to another double gun venue or online outlet to write for. I have more time for my custom gun projects which pleases my clients and my in-shop Seminar program has really taken off. I�ll be offering three sections of Fine Gunmaking classes this summer.

The Fine Gunmaking column is no more, a decision I obviously thought was very foolish as it was the most popular in the magazine. A friend suggested the magazine subtitle might be changed to, �The magazine of wingshooting and gay apparel�. Another told me it looks like a highbrow Cabalas catalog. The advertising vs. editorial has now exceeded 50%.

I�d suggest dropping a note to editor Ralph Start letting him know your thoughts. I doubt if you will see your letter published in the magazine, though.

Steven Dodd Hughes

You make some very good points, especially those about how corporate America is being run these days. I've noticed the lopsided advertising to article content in SSM for awhile now. My response was to not renew my subscription after twenty years.

I will miss your writings immensely though! Please tell us more about the classes you're offering this summer.

TMI. I am far more interested when SDH writes about guns.

All respect to SDH, I have always enjoyed his articles and his knowledge. However, burning bridges is poor business. JMHO...Geo

I left SSM during the "Special Ed" debacle years ago.

Steven I enjoyed your articles and miss them! I may not renew after my subscription expires. Bobby

SSM has become one of those magazines which seems to feature guns which buy multiple pages of advertisement. The resulting fluff articles about them are about as worthless as they get. I had noticed the loss of one of the few feature articles, which had real content to them. Did not know the reason for the change but must say it does not surprise me in the least. Sorry for the loss of real content. I wont bother renewing. Why pay for adds and fluff?

SSM has been hot garbage for a good long while. The ads have gotten ridiculous and the articles are boring. The only decent stuff in the rag has been the gunsmithing articles....that�s been about it. When I get a hankering for a decent read, I�ll go into my archives and pull a SSM or DGJ from the early years. The guys writing the articles lately seem like posers to me. Trying their very best to imitate McIntosh, Mathewson, etc. and they just seem to come up short every time. Oh well, still have the old stuff to rummage through when I feel the need.

Now I gotta figger out how to get Sports Afield in Atlanta!

Magazines change. Staff comes and goes, subscribers come and go. I had subscribed for years when one day it dawned on me that M. McIntosh had died, Galen WInter had retired, one of the posters here did a fluff piece on a canned hunt in the southern US, and there was a fashion piece with the editorial staff suited up in outfits that cost more than most people's guns.
It also dawned on me that if those in the pictures ever encountered me, a guy with shoulder length hair, torn jeans, rusty pickup, with a mean ass Gordon Setter riding shotgun, and a 70s vintage Darne, while hunting, they would likely flee in terror. They probably spent all that money thinking they were going to be getting away from people like me.

I've met guys with gunrooms, that are more interested in what bourbon and cigars are in them, than what game was last pursued, or when. I'm not them. That is OK.

I dropped my subscription. It wasn't me, and I wasn't them. And that is OK.

Best,
Ted

I stopped my subscription to SSM years ago as well. Not worth the money. Sporting Classics now has my subscription and I find it 10x as interesting (and larger to boot) then SSM.

I don�t blame you, SDH. Your sentiment about corporate America putting the $ 1st is hitting the nail on the head. You wouldn�t believe what�s happened with medicine over the past 30 years. It�s all business now and about the almighty dollar where hospital administrators are making a million dollars a year and the doctors who do all the work are being paid less and are relegated to a position of servitude, in many cases. Sad, because many doctors have had enough and are hanging it up.

I have not dropped my subscription to SSM yet, but one more Tom Roster column promoting non-tox for upland shooting would probably be the last straw.

This!

I gave up on SSM a number of years ago for all these reasons. I did enjoy SDH's columns but that was about it. I'm interested in editorial, not advertorial.

I certainly miss your articles, SDH.
I continue to subscribe to SSM---read what interests me and ignore what I don't. I'm an avid bird hunter and shotgunner and SSM fills the bill for me, but I do miss the gun smithing articles.
I too subscribe to Sporting Classics---there's certainly lots to read between issues.

Thanks for the understanding and support. I enjoy writing for Sports Afield as they allow me room to choose the direction of the topics as long as they pertain to custom Hunting rifles, the makers and the fellows that hunt with them. As much as I love fine engraving guns that are simply a platform for applied art are not what I'm interested in researching and writing about.

Magazine distribution is sketchy these days and subscriptions are the surest way to get desired magazines, I'd recommend Sports Afield for those that are interested in international big game hunting, the major focus of the magazine.

As for advertorial, that notion and considering fancy ads as content is the trend on the newsstand. I recently saw a story labeled as "Sponsored" a trend that has a gagging effect on me.

I had a great 22 year run with SSM but had been feeling more and more that I was out of touch with the editorial direction and content of the magazine. I do feel that loosing Fine Gunmaking was loosing the last consistently authentic column in the publication. I Never wrote about advertisers and Never repeated a topic in over two decades. When I left I had a list of nearly a dozen potential topics that I think you guys would have enjoyed reading about...

Recently, on the reader-board of a church I saw posted, "Change is inevitable, growth is optional". I try to live by this notion.

I'll be posting about the Summer Seminars in a few weeks, mainly stockmaking.
I hope to see some of you in Dallas, look me up at the ACGG section.

Give Dan Cote a call. DGJ can always use another quality writer.

I have completely no idea, but doesn't this assume a healthy bottom line? It could be possible that paid circulation is going down, like it seems other print periodicals face. I have had no interest in this magazine for quite a while, but the bean counters may have been sent in to make business not creative decisions.

Agree about the quality of the content going straight down. My subscription still has a year to go but I doubt I'll renew. I have all issues from the first but recently took about a foot high stack of the most recent to the trash can. The early years were great. Double Gun Journal or Sporting Classics would be a great place for your special articles.

Actually, I'm also getting a bit bored with DGJ. I mean, how many full color pictures does one need without well written editorial content.

I am beginning to have the exact same sentiments. A guy doesn't need 2 or 3 articles on Fox guns (or, whatever) every quarter, either.

I know guys who have sent in interesting (to me, anyway) articles 4-8 years ago, and never heard anything back.

Best,
Ted

I still enjoy Tom Roster's "Shot Talk", usually, but it's not enough to keep me subscribing. When this year's subscription has expired, I'm think I'm gone too.

But, I will definitely let them know why ....................too much fluff, not enough substance.

SRH

"Shooting Sportsman" is a fine magazine and will continue to be so.

Vic Venters, Doug Tate and others have always contributed articles that are of interest to us, but maybe not all of us. Each issue of Shooting Sportsman will not be attractive to everyone, just as DGJ is not always on the mark to all of us.

However, these magazines have contributed to the love of double barrel and o/u shotguns that we all love and without them we would be less blessed than we are.

Keeping a magazine business turning a profit is a real problem in this age of the internet. They have to do what they have to do to stay in the black. If long time articles are not getting the draw that they had in the past, what can a editor do? I ask this question because I do not know.

It is not just the sporting and gun magazines that are in trouble. Look at what happened to the magazine "Southern Living". It is now a piece of trash from its heyday and will probably go boots up.

The new entry "Garden and Gun" is now a coloring book for ad writers, and I stopped reading it a couple of years back. It has some of the most beautiful and well done ads that I have ever seen. I hope that they can make it a success, but I do not know what their target readers are. If it is Millennials, then they are barking up the wrong tree.

I can remember in my 76 years when Sports Afield went downhill; something happened and it woke up and now is better, but not good enough for me to subscribe to it. It is still not like it was in the 1950's when I started reading it and it will never be; and I hope that it will not be. There was much about the 1950's 1960's and so on that I liked but there was much that I wish to forget.

I like fine wine, but I do not like sour grapes.

I have a complete set from issue one through today and have watched SSM evolve. Not sure I like it as much as I once did, but still like it. I realize there has always been a challenge in terms of conflict of interests between articles and advertisers.

I regret to hear the reasons behind SDH�s departure. I have always enjoyed his writing. My thank�s to SDH.

Reference Roster and his pro non-tox, that more than anything is making me want to let them go. When there editorial decisions run counter to hunters, they cease to be worthy.

You may not want it to happen but many states require non-tox for upland game hunting (mine does on many public grounds), so the Roster articles have some merit for me. What I don't like about Roster is his complete denial of the existence of CIP standards and that many of the SSM readership (even those with modern doubles) need lower pressure alternatives, which he tends to ignore. Since he sells reloading data he is (probably correctly for him) loathe to provide any advice that may come back to bite him re: pressure.

Having said that, I agree that SSM does not speak to me so much any more. I read it each month in the hope that there will be something interesting and I find less and less that is interesting. I do like the gun reviews. I am sorry that writing with solid content is vanishing, like that of SDH. I'll have to see how I feel when my subscription expires.

Bruce

Dropped SSM at least 7-8 years ago, probably longer than that. Speaking of Garden and Gun, I loved their initial run with some really fine articles on sport, guns, music, art and artisans, and food. Then they pissed me off because they refused to run NRA ads. I dropped them, but now they send it to me free anyway. Far too Madison Avenue chic, but I do enjoy a few things they put in their mag.
JR

I have seen some copies of Gun and Garden and I can't, for the life of me, figure out what they are about. I don't find anything of interest or even very sophisticated about it.

This thread got me thinking. So with nothing better to do, I counted the full page ads in the current issue of SSM. By combining the half page ads in to full page, there are 67 pages of ads in the total of 120 pages. I did not count the small ads. There are 12 full page ads before you get to the table of contents. Me thinks the ad to content ratio is off a bit.

Read it for free every few times a year at B's and N's.

Garden and Guns,SSM on steroids. Yes paying customer wife loves it.

Quit SSM years ago. SC not much difference I suspect. Subscriber for years and then a lifetime subscriber since they offered it and ad content has increased significantly with much fluff thrown in becuse it's supposed to be read. I would of quit it years ago 'cept I'm still this side of the dirt. Bless their hearts, they did call and check once to see if I was still breathing! Now I just take them to the hospital, they are glad to get them.

I have subscribed to SSM since the first issue and would read it cover to cover for many years. For the last couple years I have not even opened the mailer when it arrives. I have another couple years on my subscription but will drop it when that time is up.

Same with DGJ. When you stop opening the magazine when it arrives it's time to drop your subscription.

Dennis

The only constant in life is change! Been building model airplanes for nearly 70 years. Loved the magazines as well. Now the dmd drones have taken over the mags and due to stupidity of the newcomers and their drones if my model weighs more than 8.8 oz I have to register with the FAA to legally fly. Now I fly a micro heli in the living room. And dropped the mags.

Had to check my files to see what I wrote for SSM: 22 articles from 1999-2006, which figures out close to an article in every other issue. I think I was more or less their blue collar gun specialist: 2 part article on Ithaca SKB's, one on Miroku doubles, 4 on the inexpensive American doubles (Hunter Fulton, Lefever Nitro, Win 24 etc). Plus an article on Faustis when they first started showing up in the States under their own name, one on the Browning Cynergy when it was new, etc. Not sure whether they'd run many articles like that today.

But I know and have hunted with a few of their regular writers: Tom Huggler, Tom Davis, Doug Tate. Good guys all. I still get the magazine, probably skip about as much as I read. But, as noted above, change is inevitable. A lot of us remember when the Big Three were all worth reading. Corey Ford, Ed Zern, Gene Hill, Ted Trueblood, Jack O'Connor . . . lots of good stuff. But, when you stop to think about it, there are way more "niche" magazines of potential interest to us than there were back in the heyday of The Big Three: In addition to SSM, Double Gun Journal, Gun Dog, Pointing Dog Journal, Retriever Journal, Sporting Classics. And a lot more meat about guns and bird hunting in the Ruffed Grouse Society and Pheasants Forever mags than used to be the case. If you're into shotguns/bird hunting/dogs, you've got more content in a single issue of many of the above mags than you would have had in all of the Big Three put together. It's almost an embarrassment of riches . . . which is why, I think, it can be easy to get burned out on the mags after awhile. Not to mention this and other BB's that deal with the same subjects. It's like being able to shop all the doublegun dealers' websites with a click of your computer instead of having to wait for Gun List to come in the mail.

Given that these aren't great times for print publications period, we're probably darned lucky we have so much available--both in print and on the Net.

Roster is the worst. I won't even look at his column. And they should knock off the fashion spreads.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the glossy upland lifestyle magazine, Covey Rise. Comments?

This is what counts as success to the management of the magazine. Full page ads mean big dollars. But that revenue is not redistributed to the writers or staff. Much of the newer staff doesn't hunt or even own guns. The entire scene has changed and there is no loyalty to anyone, especially the readers.
That's taking care of business, but not my business. It's as if the editorial dept merged with the advertising dept. Those full page ads are now considered part of the content.

Uber Gay. Just my opinion. Can�t stand the bourbon, wine and steak articles, the gun articles are weak and the stories about the pay to play hunting are silly. I think the last one I flipped through had an article/essay with pics showing the �new� generation of hunters....bearded, fully sleeved, neck tats, pipe smoking, flat cap wearing snowflake metrosexuals carrying double guns ruff grouse hunting. I was belly laughing.

There is not a single hobby based magazine that I have been interested in that has not degraded over the years. I haven't subscribed to any US based mag in decades now. For a while the only subs I had were Brit things and now those are just down to the motorcycle mags and one bike mag. They still have a sense of humor. Everything here seems to have become slick, slim, advert loaded, and worst of all - repetitive to the point of absurd.

Not much lost to tell the truth. And it's all better faster free on the web.

The only hobby-mag I can think of off the top of my head would be Car & Driver. Still a lot of cheeky irreverence in their pages, and not too much bowing to the industry gods. Motor Trend has always seemed like an industry rag, and Road & Track lost its way a long time ago. Mags like Automobile, AutoWeek, etc., have had their moments but the focus on the industry rather than the cars has never excited me.

Isn't Uber Gay a driving service in SF & Manhattan?

OWD

Good one.


_____________________
Don us now our �gay apparel� fa la la, fa la la, la la la la...

Being a gunsmith; school trained and operating a shop for 35+ years, I have always enjoyed Steve�s articles. His skill level is way beyond my capabilities as a generalist. Always enough technical detail to go with the other info on a particular gun to keep me interested every time. Steve is a great writer and I was sorry to see him gone from SSM.
As a side note on SSM; about 17 years ago, when I returned from a deployment to Bosnia, I wanted to write an article on the fantastic quail hunting there. I was lucky enough to be able to sneak away and hunt quail with the head of the sportsmen�s federation on the Federation side. We shot about 50 quail in an hour and a half. I watched the sportsmen�s federation president shoot 5 quail in the air with his Browning A5 and didn�t miss one. 5 birds with 5 shots and that included far lefts and far rights from the flush. Anyway. I submitted something to SSM and they declined telling me no readers would be interested in an article like that. I understand that I was a complete neophyte writer but to say no one would be interested in a quail hunting article is amazing.
I no longer subscribe to the DGJ and my sub to SSM is teetering on the edge of cancellation.
Several reasons.
Foremost because I have diminished interest in the whole show. I lost my buddy and bird hunting partner and collecting foil ( he loved Parkers, I am a Fox guy) that I bird hunted with for about 35 years together. Not having a close friend that shares the level of interest in Partridge hunting and double guns has left me with no like minded person to bullshit with, hunt with, share misses and phenomenally lucky shots with etc. The fun is just about gone. Although I try to make it work, it isn�t the same. Some of you who have had the buddy you hunted with a long time know what I mean.
Add the content being published now; fashion articles and modeling by editorial staff ( you wouldn�t catch me dead doing that shit!!!) and some of the most metrosexual and alternative lifestyle type layouts for clothes that 99% of the hunters in this world wouldn�t be caught in the their casket wearing them has gotten too much for me. I have never encountered the dandies depicted in the adds, especially from a couple of the establishments located in the south.
Add the dress up role players who go whole hog for the Edwardian look; complete with their womenfolk who still dress up and dream of being princesses and its just become over the top. I find it ironic that these types wax poetically for an era that no one would want to re-visit if you are looking at life expectancy, medical care, medical advancements, quality of life in general , life expectancy etc.. everyone pining for the �good old days�.
I understand that at the onset of the vintage gun revival it bred interest. But nowadays its no longer an attractant to the double gun world. Don�t get me wrong, they can play dress up and role play as weekend Edwardians all they want, just doesn�t interest me .

Again, my opinions and why I have diminished interest in the whole thing. I wish it was different. Hate to sound like a wet blanket but I call it as I see it. These two pubs have become no different than Guns and Ammo or the other gun rags that I refer to as comic books. They peddle wares of their advertisers and I get that. You have to make money. But the saturation point has been exceeded.

Don�t get me wrong, I am not going to sell off my collection of Foxes, pre 64 Model 70�s and English BPE double rifles just yet. But I have realigned my perspectives and have entered a sort of double gun malaise for the time being. Maybe there is a cure out there. If anyone knows one, PM me!!!

PS I still have my 2yr old Field Bred English Springer Mollie, who brings me untold joy so I am not completely gone!

I know exactly what you're going through. I lost all three within a year. I hunt alone now.

But it is what it is.

Brian, I could not agree more or understand any better your perspective. Plus, here in my little corner of Mississippi, there is virtually zero wingshooting anymore. No such thing as row crops and the native bobwhite quali that once were so common. Dove populations have plummeted to being so sparse as not worth preparing a "dove field" anymore. Not bothering with the time and effort to hunt big ducks 200 miles away in the Miss. Delta. Certainly don't brave beaver ponds full of blowdown and hidden logs underwater to scratch down two or three woodies either.

I used to look at certain doubles and think, "boy, that would make a great early season/late season/whatever season dove gun", but it's no longer the case. No longer fool with field guns anymore, just whatever I might use at Sporting Clays competition, which is all I shoot a shotgun for anymore.

My days pursuing shooting flying for blood are about done.

So these shiny magazines mean little to me anymore. I've read enough about fine guns to fill a boxcar, and now, when I do read the Parker, Fox, L. C. Smith, Lefever, Ithaca, Model 21, Charles Daly, Purdey, Holland and Holland, Westley Richards, et al article, I find it's the same stuff over and over, just rehashed.

I did enjoy the Dewey Vicknair custom Foxes article/pictorial recently. But nowadays, I just want to break a few targets at SC's and piss off a few Master-class shooters who think they should always outscore this marginal AA-class bumbler, lol.

Probably enjoy all my friends here's exploits afield, their stories related, and all the other great discussion and info I glean from my frequent visits.
JR

I got my DGJ the other day.

The little voice inside my head wanted to sit in my den and crack the magazine open.

I went hunting instead. It was 9 degrees outside and snowing. My I-phone told me I walked 4.3 miles.

I forgot all about the DGJ. Maybe I'll get to it soon, if I don't go hunting.

Great article in the new DGJ about a very successful high school trap league in Minnesota and the gentleman who got it started. We all ponder if the next generation will get involved in sport shooting. Obviously they will with some vision and encouragement from us. The DGJ is still the best of its kind out there - no articles on boots or what the well dressed sportsman is wearing this season.

�...- no articles on boots...�

Have a six page one here though.

Try golf. It�s sporting clays with a club and ball.


_____________________
Shouldn�t slag the �gay apparel� too much. I�ve seen some crazy shyte on the golf course.

I always enjoyed the fine gun making articles myself and it was one of the first columns I looked for. Sorry to hear it won't be in the magazine anymore.

The only thing I used to get regularly was Precision Shooting enjoying Michael Petrov articles when they appeared. Used to get Shooting Gazette and Sporting Gun on fairly consistent basis. When Precision Shooting went away regular magazine getting went away. I see corporate top executive compensation was mentioned above. Well, they just got huge gift from this administration. Anyone believing that corporate tax cuts will provide more jobs, pay or benefits to regular workers is either in delusional state or on rather intense regimen of psychedelic drugs.

Just like your bozo economist predicted the stock market will tank if Trump gets elected. What drugs was he on?

He must have been "your bozo" because those on top will have more money to buy their own company stock to raise its prices. Let us hope this time it will be different. I have no problem in corporate tax breaks if they help regular employees and create more jobs.

No, your bozos,

Simon Johnson, a former chief economist of the IMF, a professor at MIT Sloan, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, and co-founder of a leading economics blog, The Baseline Scenario had perhaps the most panicked reaction, in keeping with his status as America�s most authoritative economists. �With the United States� presidential election on November 8, and a series of elections and other political decisions fast approaching in Europe, now is a good time to ask whether the global economy is in good enough shape to withstand another major negative shock. The answer, unfortunately, is that growth and employment around the world look fragile. A big adverse surprise � like the election of Donald Trump in the US � would likely cause the stock market to crash and plunge the world into recession,� Johnson wrote on October 29, 2016.

Ian Winer, director of equity sales trading for the securities firm Wedbush, predicted a 50 percent fall in stocks if Trump won.

Mark Cuban. �I can say with 100 percent certainty that there is a really good chance we could see a huge, huge correction,� Cuban told CNN. �That uncertainty potentially as the president of the United States � that�s the last thing Wall Street wants to hear.�


All of them contributors to the Hillary campaign. So they're your bozos.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-stock-market-could-crash-if-donald-trump-is-elected-2016-10-31

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...h-if-trump-won/

Definition of a bozo, "Frequently wrong but never in doubt."

[quote=Jagermeister]The only thing I used to get regularly was Precision Shooting enjoying Michael Petrov articles when they appeared. Used to get Shooting Gazette and Sporting Gun on fairly consistent basis. When Precision Shooting went away regular magazine getting went away. I see corporate top executive compensation was mentioned above. Well, they just got huge gift from this administration. Anyone believing that corporate tax cuts will provide more jobs, pay or benefits to regular workers is either in delusional state or on rather intense regimen of psychedelic drugs. [/quote

Sigh - Please pay attention. I reference recent press releases from BoA, Comcast, Boeing, Fifth Third Bank and others who are awarding year end bonuses because of the tax bill. Reductions in the corporate tax rate have been enabled this. Furthermore, it is likely that some corporations will find it advantageous to repatriate some offshored operations because of the tax rate reduction. We will see how this develops. Personally, the stock market offers a better return than a SxS. Since Trump took office the Dow Jones has benefitted those with 401K plans and allowed some underfunded pension plans to gain ground. Does any of this make sense? These positive developments benefit a wide range of our citizenry, some more than others, but hey we aren�t living in O�bamas utopian paradise any longer. My advice to you is get your head out of your ass, turn off MSNBC, and pay attention to the good things happening in this country. I�m having a hard time with my New Years resolution of suffering trolls and fools. Please forgive me.

No thanks for hijacking this nice thread.

Here's my vote that you remove yourself from this site and never return with your socialist agenda.
JR

My fault but my head was about to explode....

So was mine.

Other than DGJ, which I still enjoy, I still subscribe to Rifle And Handloader magazines. Still enough of interest that I�ve kept them coming. And there is always the Gun Digest annual, which I have all the way back to the first edition from 1944. My kids will have to deal with the disposition when I�m gone.

Many millions of US citizens, including me, have much of their retirement savings invested in stocks. Most of us are not wealthy.

For example. An elderly relative, who had spent her entire working life as an hourly production worker, recently passed away. After twenty years of retirement, including more than a year in an expensive self-funded assisted-living facility, her estate included several hundred thousand dollars worth of stocks accumulated over a working lifetime.

Unlike in socialistic societies, in the US, workers and capitalists are not mutually exclusive groups.

Interesting topic. I quit subscribing to Shooting Sportsman about 4 years ago. Most of the articles were about hunting in places that I knew I would never go to. I'd call them expensive canned hunts. Not hard to kill a bunch of birds in a place that has a bunch of birds that only the (mostly) well to do can go to. Myself and my friends have weekend bird dogs that are fairly trained that can find birds if there are birds to be found. I certainly did enjoy articles about fine guns or buying used guns (what to look for), but decided like others there was too much fluff and too much of an "Upper Crust" feel to the magazine. I do describe to DGJ, and some of their articles can provide historical information about a particular gun or its owner or provide how things were done regarding gun making in the classic days of gun making, when skilled handiwork was King.

It would be interesting to know what the circulation is for Shooting Sportsman is these days as compared to what it was about 20 years ago. Also would be interesting to see what their books look like and how many dollars come from those fancy adds and how much comes from subscribers.

Like Romac, I have the winter copy here at the house of DGJ and haven't even opened it yet. I did however take my pup out bird hunting twice last week and would be doing it today if the wind chills weren't in the single digits. Much more fun to be walking in the fields following a young setter then reading a glossy mag for sure.

People always see things through their own lenses.

It's entirely possible that Steve is mistaken, and the rest of you just jumped into a contract negotiation canard without any facts or knowledge.

I wouldn't be so quick to grab the pitchforks and go storming the castle. The marketing reality is that most of you are old, and are done buying.

An aspirational magazine doesn't need you other than as a circulation chit. The magazine needs aspirational readers to serve their advertisers, the very people so many of you seem to despise. You aren't buying, they are.

Steve will either make a new deal or won't. But you will still be old and done buying from their advertisers.

Aging out of a genre is a natural step of life.

CZ you may well be right that many of us are near done buying, at least compared to 20 yrs ago. I know I am.

Can�t say I mind the advertising in SSM, sort of eye candy. Nor am I that bothered by the articles that are partial adds, eye candy again.

I still subscribe to three magazines in paper form, SSM, DGJ, & Covey Rise. All have pluses and minuses.

Like others here some stay in the wrapper for a while before I read them.

Well . . . I'm old enough to be double dipping on both a military pension and Social Security. And I probably SHOULD be done buying . . . but I'm not. and I don't get the sense that many folks here in my age group are done buying either. They may have given up hunting because it doesn't really exist any more where they live, but like one poster above suggests, there's still the target games.

When you get into the doublegun niche, it can rapidly become expensive. One reason we're old is that we--the set chasing after nice vintage American, British, European etc side by sides--have always been the ones willing to spend big bucks (relatively speaking) on guns. That's because we're no longer paying to support children, pay off college loans, etc. Until that happens, the gun buying bug may be there, but the means to do so . . . not so much. Kinda like why everyone you see riding a Harley has gray hair.

The villagers don't want to hear that they are being played, Colonel. It's nothing personal.

Round up all the readers of your column, get them fired up, sending e-mails, threatening to quit, all that, and then wait for the call to come back. The internet allows the gambit to be played worldwide.

If SSM doesn't play, someone else will, if there's any value seen in it.

The magazine racket sounds like a shyte business. First Don Thomas, now Steve. Bullshyte.

I�m not done buying. I never was buying.


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If you�re going to sell out, make sure they�re buying.

The wonderful photography seems to have taken the place of "substance" ......... the technicana, the how-to-do, hands-on stuff that attracts me. SSM has had some beautiful photographs, but I'm into shooting the guns more than shooting the pics. DGJ is the last bastion, and it is slowly turning into a collector's magazine, more than shooting. I hate to see that, but still enjoy it, four times a year.

It all makes me more grateful that Al Gore invented the internet , so that at least the exchange of information can take place.

As I posted on another forum, I doubt that SSM will miss me. But, I won't lose any sleep over that.

SRH

There are some real nice "...the how-to-do, hand-on..." books. Double Guns & Custom Gunsmithing, Fine Gunmaking Double Shotguns, Gunfitting The Quest for Perfection, The Shotgun A shooting Instructor's Handbook,........ I like those and am constantly looking for more to add to my library.

[Larry Brown quote] Well . . . I'm old enough to be double dipping on both a military pension and Social Security. And I probably SHOULD be done buying . . . but I'm not. and I don't get the sense that many folks here in my age group are done buying either. They may have given up hunting because it doesn't really exist any more where they live, but like one poster above suggests, there's still the target games.

When you get into the doublegun niche, it can rapidly become expensive. One reason we're old is that we--the set chasing after nice vintage American, British, European etc side by sides--have always been the ones willing to spend big bucks (relatively speaking) on guns. That's because we're no longer paying to support children, pay off college loans, etc. Until that happens, the gun buying bug may be there, but the means to do so . . . not so much. Kinda like why everyone you see riding a Harley has gray hair. [/quote]

Larry, I wouldn't equate your endless gun trading to the acquisition and use of the soft goods advertised (and decried here) in the magazine. Or the destination pieces either for that matter. 99% of the people moved to purchase are decades younger than you. Most people that buy a moderately expensive shotgun are one and done.

It's just a stage of life. You don't need more stuff, but the magazine needs to sell stuff.
My only axe to grind is the vitriol old men seem always at the ready to spew at their replacements.

I've come to enjoy actually visiting the destinations advertised there. I don't decry them.

Seems like you would be really easy to satisfy with a magazine subscription, nothing like getting the same issue all year long, huh. And, the corporate folks just love it when they keep profiting off of you for a book that you bought ten years ago, eh. Have a happy non corporate, non profit new year.

Nope, I'm very discriminating magazine reader. The only one I read on regular basis is the Virginia Sportsman.
When you buy book like Fine Gunmaking Double Shotguns you no longer have to look at double gun magazines.

Now there's a simple truth.

And I notice that you all righteously condemn the "canned hunts" sorta thing which to me is strange since the Holy Driven Birds (phez and grouse alike) have been nothing but canned hunts since Day One. And Purdey et al made their fortunes catering to those very shooters.
And, BTW, the Limeys still dress like that at driven shoots too so the make-believers ain't far wrong hahaha
But the gun mags still sux goat balls

Well said CZ;

To my mind it is highly unlikely that he will now be able to make a new deal with Ralph, since he virtually urinated in Ralph's face via unwise and uncalled for whining in this BBS. My expectations are that Ralph will assign the duties of writing about fine guns and gunmaking where it should be to Vic Venters who has proven credentials, knowledge of the trade and credibility as well as better writing skills and understanding of what the readers want to read.

The best writing series that have ever illuminated the pages of Shooting Sportsman through the years were authored in the "Technicana" articles by Michael and CrossChissels; Vic Venters in his articles that were then published in book form; and from those contributed by Doug Tate whose writing skills and knowledge
are legendary. There have been from time to time contributions to the magazine by other authors that were excellent articles.

As a matter of fact and come to think of it, Vic would likely produce a better reading Shooting Sportman magazine with wider and greater circulation than Ralph is currently doing.

Highly unlikely that "the rest of us" can be lumped together like you did. I could give a care whether Steve is right or wrong, or what the contract negotiations were. I was already tired of the "ads nauseam", and losing this column is the straw that broke the camel's back. Where do you get the idea that the contract negotiation info is what so many are reacting to?

You're a sharp guy, CZ. I'm surprised that you wouldn't be more cognizant of the mistake of lumping people together like that.

SRH

There is little doubt that Vic could produce a better magazine than about anyone.
Pretty sure that is not JMO

I have resisted commenting on the subject, because I have known SDH for a decade and a half, or more. He used some of my guns for articles in SSM. In some articles, his fine photos were reduced in size to be about useless. Think of a stamp auction catalog. In the meantime the magazine had a full two page photo of 2 dogs jumping out of a pickup. I cannot guess why the magazine's choices. I quit the magazine unknowingly and was not aware of it being missing. A couple of years later, an offer of a cheap subscription brought me back, but I really have no interest in extending.

That being said, the business needs to make money. It is their decision on what to print with that in mind. That is what makes the world go around.

The ultimate magazine, world class writers and content, pro pictures, zero compromise, and free for the asking. I wonder how many would ask.

craigd

Just put a sign on the rack sayin� Free, take one! like they do with the Truck Swapper out in front of the Piggly Wiggly.


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Be a Capitalist Tool, not a socialist fool.

This thread makes me consider What makes us quit a magazine? Stay with me. Anybody enjoy Gray�s Sporting Journal?
My interests are varied. I like knives. I like hunting and guns. I opened this month�s issue and saw a full page advertisement for Chris Williams Knives. Ugh. Then read their �Best of 2017� and his singular folder (a production) was among their selection of only FOUR total accessories in the category. This handle-guy was found out on blade forums in many an opinion for misrepresenting as a real knife maker charging hi-custom prices for nicely custom-handled knives using what hasn�t really been disputed as Chinese pregound blades bought from Jantz etc. and not being transparent. Playing a fake on the unwitting and unknowledgable some years ago, using $10 blades. And the site still mimics the same preground blades. The guy IMO has consistently been opaque and shifting the website�s language or not disclosing what�s material to play the margins...

So Gray�s writes so beautifully about this Williams Knives new folder costing $150 and it�s obviously IMO (and others) a near duplicate copy of the cheap Ganzo G704 folder, Chinese, which you can buy for as low as $13 on Amazon. It�s only missing the keeper holes and w color switching, obviously the Chinese manufacture it and it�s been out on market a long time. It�s got to be along the same Chinese knife from the same Chinese factory. The Chinese at Ganzo obviously copied a Benchmade/Snody-designed folder, produced it, and now etch his name on it. Which Williams had claimed he engineered and designed it over 3 years long...? Of course there�s never proof to backup such stories...

I called the head name of Gray�s under Advertising to complain, in other words I asked him why did they disregard hundreds of reputable US custom and production knife makers implying decency)as selectees for their winner, much more declare a $13 Chinese made knife a Best of Anything from this handle assembler. And what about the people who will later find out its a Chinese cheapo w the Williams name etched on the blade, and it was Gray�s that assisted in moving that product for $150? A magazine looks the other way when it�s so easy for the internet search to prove of people slapping on handles yet creating grand fictions within their grand stories to pump through their hired Ad agency to get these glowing nonsense articles and awards into the mags. But hey, so-called us-made n manufactured n designed hipster articles and stories work so well w the newer generation, I guess.

His reply in short was �We understand Chris Williams is a controversial figure...� and �That knife isn.t claimed to be custom made...� and finally �We�ll look into it.� Sure. You already did or should�ve known. All you have to do is call USAKnifemakers in TX and ask how long the $18 Oyster knife blanks have been around (at least ten yrs) and see Williams� $250 Edisto oyster knife uses the EXACT same design to look into the controversy of foisting someone foisting. And to think Garden&Gun in 2011made Chris Williams knives their Overall Winner in the sporting category for these Edisto oyster knives, claimed to be his design etc.. I never looked at that mag after that.

I came away from my conversation with Gray�s that Advertising was defending their choice. Sad. They took the money! I will cease subscribing to Grays only because of that. Advertising it�s necessary but you�d wish there was a more solid ethos to it.

Magazines are like sausages�it�s best not seeing them be made. Lonny von Rhodes


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Take the money and run. (Demo)
https://youtu.be/SD4KiVnPU0g

I used to subscribe to Gray�s but now only pick up their bird hunting issue each fall.

I know it is easy to find fault with 100% of the pubs out there.

At one time I had 10 different subscriptions between bird hunting and fly fishing magazines. One day while looking at a pile of still wrapped magazines two feet high my wife offered I should choose the three I actually read. I dropped down to SSM and DGJ, recently adding Covey Rise.

My wife refers to them as my bird porn and double gun porn in that I really love the pictures as well as the content, sometimes the pictures more.

Having been the copy and later editorial editor of my college paper, I don�t think producing a superior product is as easy as some might think. If they can, go do it, more power to them and many here will subscribe.

All of us are different and key in on our predilections, good and bad.

This happens all the time. For example, many people pay $40 to $50 for Yeti coffee mug when same thing can be had at Walmart for $10 to $20. When I have $150 to spend for pocket knife I buy Moki. When I want good inexpensive US-made folder I buy Buck from Walmart for $30 to $50. When I want quality utilitarian fixed blade knife for little money I turn to G. Sakai. This would be too utilitarian for most on this board, therefore, I recommend IC.CUT Hiro which offers nice line of hunting knives with stainless blades and cocobolo wood handles. One would be hard pressed to find something better for about $150. Ignorant people look at fancy adds in expensive magazines.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but no one on this thread has suggested that it is easy, or that the editors at SSM should work harder, or smarter. If they did, I missed it.

You don't mind paying that subscription fee to look at pictures ............ I, and many others here, do. I suspect many who have posted concerning this will be voting with their checkbook ............. their inexperience with publishing notwithstanding.

SRH

The "soft goods" apart, SSM carries bunches of gun ads, from both makers and high end dealers. And the group with which I associate . . . far from "one and done" when they buy a moderately expensive shotgun. But most of them aren't quite as prolific in their trading as I am. That I'll certainly admit. But no matter one's age, it's not about "need". It's about "want", and the desire and ability to spend the $. The younger set may have the desire while lacking the disposable funds. The older set . . . the desire seems to linger way beyond the need. I think that's why a lot of widows end up with impressive collections of guns to dispose of. More thoughtful owners might have started the disposal phase before they assumed room temperature.

Age,age,age. Let's not pigeonhole anyone for their age, lest we all find out that we are older than we thought. A basic premise of posting on this website is to drag something of the past along with us, always hoping that we can find it in the future.

I look in occassionally to the SSM forum.
I mentioned that I thought it was a sad loss that SDH had decided not to write for them anymore .
Surprise , surprise , many forum and magazine buyers confessed to not reading Steve's articles , so wouldn't miss him and realising also that adverts helped to keep the magazine alive .
We live and learn .