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Stan:

I have seen many folks here go after dealers about thay are crooks, fall in the same relm of used car dealers, cheats, etc,
But say that I guess with you that is ok, say something the other way and that becomes an issue with you.

John


John Boyd
Quality Arms Inc
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Different groups/regions of peoples differ in how they look at buying/selling. Something that was instilled in my upbringing was to never set a price on another mans goods. Let him set a price and take it or walk away. I am slowly changing as the internet has brought the regions all together.

My $.02,

John

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Unfortunate thread. John and Stan are both good guys...Geo

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I can definitely relate to the sentiments expressed in the original post. I own a small "pop" pawnshop (not even Mom & Pop) and sell guns as part of that. Let's just say that gun shoppers are an interesting lot. I'm sure the pawnshop experience is vastly different than the leather chair and bookshelf gun boutique scene, but . . .

The genuine gun guy buyers are fine. Many are salt of the Earth types. Some you would be happy to restart a nation with. They account for about 10-15 percent of folks at the gun counter and a HUGE part of your gun sales. These are the "Super Gun Owners" that the national media expresses concern about, the ones that own half the guns in America. A few, the black-gun erector-set enthusiats especially, make you shake your head from time to time but you're happy for customers who spend money. If you're smart you treat these guys well.

Another 15 percent or so are simply legitimate consumers who are interested in making a one-time or occasional purchase but place no more emotional or spiritual attachment to the product they're buying. THey'll buy a gun and you may never see them again, or only rarely. They're easy. You do your best to try to serve them and encourage them to increase their interest.

Maybe 5 percent are up to no good. They're either criminals or criminal want-to-be types. You do good if you can run them out as quickly as possible without drama. You do not want to sell them a gun.

Another 5 percent think they're slick. They're trying to pull one over on you somehow. They're easy to spot. They're actually sort of fun to play with.

The simply curious make up another 10 percent or so. They don't come into the pawnshop to look at guns but so long as they're there they'll peek, ask a few questions and maybe touch something. You spend a few minutes being hospitable but don't expect anything from them.

Probably two-thirds of the people who approach my gun counter are a total waste of time. They don't have any money and aren't likely to have any money any time soon. There is no chance whatsoever that they will make a purchase. You know it and they know it but they pretend it's not the case. You pretend that there's hope. If they propose a trade they expect you to give them 125 percent of retail for their gun and want to buy yours for 30 percent off. Many cruise the gun counter for entertainment. It's fun for them to keep track of everybody's inventory and handle anything new. They'll hang out at the counter and hold court. Some will regale you with stories of guns they own, guns they used to own, guns their brother-in-law, uncle or hunting buddy owns. They'll relive their hunts. They'll tell you about the guns they should have bought. They are poseurs. They'll expound at length on topics they know nothing about. You hold your tongue and check your facial expressions as you catch them again and again in obvious lies, falsehoods and erroneous opinions. They'll play "stump the clerk" trying to draw you into to taking a position on some minutia that they hold a firm opinion about and then tell you why you're wrong. They are forever in search of unicorns -- oddball calibers, truly unique firearms and accessories that one person in 100,000 might desire, secure in the confidence that you won't have hen's teeth in stock (nothing is more fun than producing the elusive unicorn and watching them squirm while coming up with an excuse why they're not ready to buy today). Smile and play along. It's hard though when it comes to prices. They'll low-ball you and accuse you of profiteering, oblivious to the slim margins and the high cost of business. These people -- again, probably at least half the people who approach the gun counter -- suck the life out of you. They are there to use you and give nothing back. They are the reason that so many people in the gun business are humorless and surly.

Add to this the whole Internet thing and, well, gun sales ain't all it's cracked up to be. Nothing like spending a half hour showing a guy handguns only to get a transfer for him from Grab-a-Gun a week later for the same gun you showed him. You can't blame him when you see that his Internet price was lower than your supposed wholesale dealer's cost.

So, yeah, I know where the OP is coming from. Fortunately, there's enough honest, decent people among the gun community to make it mostly worthwhile. There sure are a lot of people who try your patience, however. Each of you is free to decide for yourself where you fit in.

Last edited by bladeswitcher; 11/19/17 11:51 AM.
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I had a cousin who sold farm real estate. He explained to me that 90% of his sales were to 3-5% of his customers but the other 92-95% were all profit to him. His point was that he give the little fellow a little time because he knew a few would pan out but he knew who bought almost all of his land. Either a man can get a million dollars or he can't he would say. Same with guns, either a man has the money, interest and desire to buy or he does not.

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Originally Posted By: bladeswitcher
....I'm sure the pawnshop experience is vastly different than the leather chair and bookshelf gun boutique scene, but . . .

The genuine gun guy buyers are fine. Many are salt of the Earth types. Some you would be happy to restart a nation with. They account for about 10-15 percent of folks at the gun counter and a HUGE part of your gun sales....

....Another 15 percent or so are simply legitimate consumers who are interested in making a one-time or occasional purchase....

...Probably two-thirds of the people who approach my gun counter are a total waste of time....

....So, yeah, I know where the OP is coming from....

....Each of you is free to decide for yourself where you fit in.

I think you did a great run down of doing business, and I appreciate the time you took to explain it. It looks like, unless the type of customer that approaches the counter, boutique or not, can be changed, it's just a numbers game. A buyer might not have to be concerned how they categorize themselves, but the seller might consider that foot traffic is the only way to meet the numbers whether it's at a show or showroom or online.

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I know when I go into a gun store, weather it be used, or new guns, if it's a gun I'm interested in I ask to see it, check out the gun, look at the price tag, and until recently either hand it back with a thinks, or buy the gun, I never asked if there was a better price than what was listed. I have no idea how many guns I walked away from, but could have walked away with had I asked, on that same token I know I have gotten taken because my wants were greater than my common sense.

To the OP when I ask (now) what is the best price I expect an answer not a question!

The problem with "make me an offer" is if you low ball the guy he is going to take offence, and if you don't you may take it in the shorts.

Recently I bought a Beretta 686 silver pigeon 20 ga, as I looked at the gun I noticed a scratch on the pistol grip, something that should not be there on an $1800 gun, I pointed it out and put the gun away, talked with the clerk for a few minutes, and it occurred to me to ask about price and scratch, turns out that scratch saved me $170.00, which speaks a little toward that very low profit margin on guns, just the other day I bought a new Franchi Highlander, I am sure it sat in the store for years considering they stopped making them years ago, as I was filling out the paperwork and looking at the gun I noticed bumps, and scratches on the stock, again something that should not be on a new gun, that one saved me $80.00, so from now on I will at least try on the price, and not just take the listed price at gospel.

TM

Edited to add: SO I guess I'm the guy who goes up to the gun counter, talks with clerk, looks at guns and puts them back, not because I don't want to buy a gun, not because I want to waist the clerks time, but because the price listed is greater than I am willing to spend on said gun, perhaps those clerks wasting their precious time talking with wannabes could ask something like "what will it take for you to take that little beauty home with you?"...just sayin.

Last edited by TMair; 11/19/17 12:37 PM.
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Ok, now let's play 'types of dealers'. Turnabout is fair play.

1. The volume discount dealer. We had one in my state that did a LOT of business until the founder died and his kids took it over. No service, occasional rudeness (perhaps because of people expecting service, see 'types of buyers' above), but great selection and the best prices for far and wide. You need to do your homework, know what you want before your visit, and expect to trade service (and even civility) for the best price, sometimes by a wide margin. I got to know these folks simply because I did a lot of business with them and we developed a rapport. They knew I always spent money, sometimes quite a bit.

2. The 'full service' dealer but with no value added. Large sporting good stores with inexperienced people running the vast gun counter with retail prices. You know who I mean.

3. Local 'gun museum'. Home of the glass counter with a large rack of inaccessible 'display' guns that never change. Small inventory of common stuff, usually from the Shot Show. Vast rack of clunkers, usually classic American repeaters but all with weird modifications that devalue them to 1/3 of the tagged price.

4. Pawn shops. A very mixed bag. Usually a clip fed bolt shotgun, a Model 12 with no finish left, and a 'Topper' complete the selection. However, we have a shop locally here that has an active gun counter and they are willing to do just about anything you might ask as far as ordering stuff and even discount the products to a reasonable price. They understand they can't stock the shelves like the big store in the next town, but they still want to compete. Good operation in general, if you don't mind the rows and rows of obsolete electronic garbage.

5. Jaqua's. In a class by themselves. Mentioned by name because they simply do it right.

6. Jaqua's wannabes. Here we lump the rest of the 'good guys'. Actual gun stores with both new and used inventory, that cater to shooters. They likely have an internet presence.

7. Gun club with pro shop. Usually the home of full retail. They have their audience, it just isn't me.

8. Shooting buddy with FFL. A vanishing breed. I did business with a couple of them, to our mutual benefit. Very handy for internet transfers, but generally leveraged out by the wholesalers. Time was when average Joe could simply call OSHI and get a reasonable price to pass on.

9. Internet picture show guys. Sometimes very high condition and uncommon high grade guns. A specialty niche. They fill a need if you can bring yourself to shell out serious dough based just on pictures and reputation.

Certainly I've missed some 'dealer types'.

Feel free to add to the list.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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There's one online dealer that I've bought a gun from who upfront on his inventory page states these are firm prices and are not negotiable. For discount of X%, buy two guns. I felt his asking price was in line for the gun I bought from him. Gil

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That's how it should be, GLS.

If you expect to find an adversarial relationship going in that's likely how it will be.

Approach it as two sides looking for agreement and things might go better. Might.

I only swore off one vendor. No names, I've told the story here before. He tried to 'double close' me. That won't play. It's an old car dealer ploy.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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