doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CSMC and Savage/Stevens

Failed to mention, when I was fondling over CSMC guns. A sales representative informed me there RBL is no longer in production, but could be made if special ordered.

I ask when are they closing shop (yep, I went there) I was told CSMC are currently making sxs for Savage/Stevens. Was told internally, the gun is there RBL.

curiously I went to Savage web sight - which they are advertising a Fox sxs with a sticker of $5k. Not sure this Gun is the gun CSMC is producing for Savage-Stevens.

Thought I would share the info
RJM

Yes, it is the Fox/RBL by CSMC that you speak of.
JR

Don't they make an AH Fox shotgun that copies the original action already?

I thought they were getting out of the doublegun business to make semi automatic rifles?

semi automatic rifles? i heard it was self loading space guns...

That's what they are Ed NOT the so called and incorrectly used "assault rifles."

Any other "new" info to share?

I heard pistols. Bobby

They also are making a side lock sxs for Auguste Francotte. All hand built starting at $25k.
That's all I got from the sales staff.

RJM

wonder if they could make a buck by producing repros of small bore field grade parker and fox guns...

a 410 sterlingworth with 30" barrels would be a cool skeet gun...

In 1989 when Parker Reproductions lost their production facility in Japan they searched the world for another manufacturer to produce their guns to their quality standards. They found that they'd have to sell their Parker Reproduction gun for $10,000 each. With the inflation we've had since 1989 a Parker Reproduction would have to sell for $19,800.00 for it to be profitable for a company to make it a viable endeavor today.

With that kind of a price tag I wouldn't be looking for another repro of a Parker anytime soon. Perhaps a repro Sterlingworth could be produced for a bit less, but I wouldn't be looking for one of those 30" .410s anytime soon either. It makes for a good dream though, eh?

figurin if they did field grade gons, wid plain wood, minimal engravings, double triggers an no ejectors nor choke tubes, perhaps it could be done for less...

Not enough profit in limited runs of economy models Ed; to make money they have to build Caddies...Geo

Since the Spanish vacated that market you'll be going up against the Turks. Good luck with that.

This is exactly right. At the time, my good friend John Allen of Gamefair Ltd. in Nashville, which is no longer in business, was very close to the Parker Reproduction effort and Tom and Jack Skeuse, and he told me the exact same thing.

And I will add this: abandon all hope of any of these kinds of reproduction guns being done again here or anywhere. It was catching lightning in a bottle when the Skeuses did it in the '80's, and that's not going to happen again.
JR

Had a chance to handle one of the Savage Foxes in a Cabela's Gun Library recently. Price tag: $4500. 20ga, 28", straight/splinter/DT. I did not have a scale handy to weigh it, but my guess would be within an ounce or 2 either way of 6#. So they got that right for an upland 20ga. Frame sculpted to look like a Fox.

In general, I was more impressed than I thought I'd be. Things I didn't like: It has the same silver forend plunger release, which sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb against the underside of the barrels. The barrels have a dull finish that's almost matte, like on a waterfowl or turkey gun. But given the prices on new Spanish, Italian, or German competitors, I'd say it doesn't stack up too badly.

I just wish CSMC could have made the RBLs and this "Fox" with a nice level rib that stays above the height of the barrels all the way to the muzzles, just like every other American double gun mfctr did.
JR

Even if they produced the stripped down plain Jane version you suggest for the 1989 projected price of $10,000, just how many do you think they would sell Ed?

And could you tell us why you write and spell like an illiterate sharecropper who hasn't learned about the Caps Key? When you were in school, did you ever stick your tongue on the flagpole during recess in the winter?

Skip the last question... I think we already know the answer.

well scut...you should no...you was der too..when you an yo toadie were not hangin out behin da wood fence when you two was ex spelled...always wondered why you two spent so much time to geder behin dat fence...

The Turks could probably build a Parker Repro for 10K. The problem is no one would buy it.

I would like to them make a SXS rifled slug gun in 12ga. Or 20 ga. .under Savage
or Steven..

It looks like a gun designed to compete with something like Merkel 47e. The price isn't unreasonable for something made in USA. For those that want something new and can't afford this there are nice options from Turkey in $1500 to $2000 or little more, but you ain't going to "Make America Great Again" choosing that route. Sadly not many will be sold and it will soon go away.

All you guys wishing for Parker re-pros missed your chance. I remember when they were clearing them out at a very nice price. About a third of what they sell for now and it took longer than it should to sell them all. People always want what use to be made but the fail to buy it in high enough number to keep it in production too often. Plus it always comes down to cost. Buyers seem to live about 30 years in the past in what they think a reasonable price for something should be.

Maybe half what they sell for now Jon . . . if you're talking 12 or 20. But at $1995, they were definitely a good deal. I'm sure a lot of people wish they'd bought one or two.

The Repros sold very well, given the pre-closeout price. Likely would have remained in production if the Olin-Kodensha deal hadn't ended.

I owned several Parker Repros. 5 Steel Shot Specials, a 20 ga. BHE that was bought strictly as a quick-turnaround profit piece, and one 28 ga. One of the SSS's I wish I had kept had spectacular black-streaked French Walnut and an extra set of 30" barrels, which are are VERY rare (not sure, but they may have been the only set made...).

But they all went down the road. I just never could get over the fact they were a Japanese copy. Nice guns, though.
JR

JR, funny you mentioned them being a Japanese copy. I bought a Japanese copy 42 High Grade limited edition built for Winchester in 1993 because I wanted a 42 pump and did not ant to either end up dumping money into a worn out original or putting wear on a nice collector grade gun. I looked at the later Browning Graded guns with the gold inlay and had no interest in them.

Then I came across the Winchester repro 42 with one of the better exhibition stocks I've seen on them. The engraving is decent but machine like in looks. As a hunting gun it functions flawlessly. Seven limits so far this year. Maybe two more this weekend. This misses are mine not the guns. Even as a full choke .410 I feel no real handicap with decent range limitation. It is not a 40 yard gun for pass shooting but under 30 yards it cleanly kills any Dove I shoot at with excellent results. So you pass on a Japanese reproduction while I embraced one.

I guess authenticity plays a larger role in my shotguns than in yours, Jon. I suppose you could say I embraced and then pulled away.
JR

I remember in early to mid 90s 20ga 26" SST being sold at closeout through adds in Gun List? or Shotgun News? for about $1500. Had to work to help pay for school so I didn't have disposable income to buy one.

Jon:

I'm with you. When I wanted a Model 12 in 28 gauge, I called Dave Riffle. When I told him what I intended to do with it, he told me to save my money and buy the Browning copy in Grade I, which was going for about 1/5 of an original at the time. I did and I have enjoyed it for years. Not a collector's piece, but a fully functional gun that does just what I want it to do.

Rem

Keeping with the 28ga pump theme, I considered the Browning model 12 copy but chose the BPS Ithaca copy. I think it is a better gun...Geo

I don't believe the general closeout price ever dropped below $1995. Several dealers selling them at that price. I recall Guns Unlimited, Cape Outfitters, and I think Jaqua's . . . if my memory isn't playing tricks on me. I think there was one more.

I bought two of them from a shop in Colorado for about 1500 Bucks each, one evening....Alcohol , a big credit card were involved...

Dunn's/Paul Jaeger, Grand Junction, TN. And you are correct on the pricing. $1995 was the lowest they ever sold for. The extra barrels I bought for my Steel Shot Special were $400.
JR

Larry, there were only the three dealers you mentioned that closed them out. DHE-grade DT guns sold for $1995.00, 2-bbl. sets sold for $2695.00 Add $100.00 each for ST, BT forend and 12-ga. guns.

My two barrel 28 gauge came from Guns Unlimited, cost $2795 because of the beavertail. The sent my snap caps later, no charge. I bought my oil bottle at the Nashville NRA show from another dealer who had a few left. It was an astounding piece of American shotgun history. Only Tony's introduction of the A-10 was as good a deal. Third place in the bargain class was the Inverness with the proper options.

Agree on the good deal part. And if you look at what the standard price was (I seem to recall $2895 for the typical DHE version), the 20's and 12's haven't suffered a whole lot of inflation since they stopped making them. 28's, somewhat more--probably because there were so few original 28ga Parkers.