March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
4 members (SKB, Sandlapper, Jtplumb, Bob Jurewicz), 326 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,373
Posts543,977
Members14,389
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
It has been a loooong time since I posted, and of course when I return it is a "What is it worth?" question. laugh cool

I picked up a group of barrel sets. Mostly SxS but also some O/U.
All need some cleaning, and some may not be salvageable due to damage.

I know where to sell them.
HERE, GB and even eBay crazy but I need some starting point for valuation.

I know of the Parker & LC Smith sites, but other suggestions would be appreciated as starting points.

Thank you.

List of what I have sorted so far. There are a few more that I know include Ithaca.

Most are 12ga. I have identified those that I have confirmed otherwise.
SxS
8) Parker Bros.
8) LC Smith/Fulton
1) LC Smith, Maker of Baker drilling set w/ forend
2) Winchester 24 (12 & 16)
1) Francotte / VL&D Chain Damascus
2) Fox Sterlingworth (12 & 20)
1) Fox Model B 12ga w/ forend
2) Colt
1) Baker
1) Remington

O/U
1) Browning Superposed
8) Marlin 90 O/U Some unfinished. (Hooks not machined, no ribs installed etc.) (12 & 16)
6) Savage 420 & 430 (12, 16 & 20)


Mike
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
I suggest you look at the "Sold" auctions on EBay, for a realistic idea of value. There's a lot of sets for sale that are overpriced, often due to alterations and condition, as well as Seller ignorance.

An accurate description, with good pictures can go a long way on EBay. Wall thickness numbers would probably increase value.

Sounds like a nice bunch of quality tubes. A friend did well with a bunch of modern tubes he bought, all for single barrel guns.

Last edited by Ken61; 09/14/17 12:00 PM.

I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Wall thickness is not something I have the equipment to do.
Bore, choke, length, etc. I know to describe.

Pictures and descriptions won't be a problem. I sell a lot on GB and some on eBay. I'd prefer to sell here or other shotgun sites.

Have checked sold eBay auctions and barrel sets seem to be rare. On an auction site I can start low and let them run, but again, I'd like to see folks here have first go and send Dave some $$$.


Mike
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Originally Posted By: Ken61


Sounds like a nice bunch of quality tubes. A friend did well with a bunch of modern tubes he bought, all for single barrel guns.


Saw your edit.
I also picked 10-12 single shotgun barrels and 30-40 rifle barrels. Stayed with 'Doublegun' theme for my post here. wink


Mike
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445
Likes: 201
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445
Likes: 201
Can you put the rifle barrels in the other forum WTS/WTB.
Mike

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 20
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 20
Mike:

What gauge, length and chokes are the Superposed barrels?

Rem

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,936
Likes: 16
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,936
Likes: 16
I am interested in the 20 ga sterlingworth and sent PM and email address. Bobby

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,936
Likes: 16
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,936
Likes: 16
I am interested in the 20 ga sterlingworth bbls and sent PM and email address. Bobby

Last edited by bbman3; 09/14/17 01:28 PM.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
As Ken said, you will most certainly cover the $120 investment with the realized selling prices of the vintage double barrels by knowing wall thicknesses.
You will also avoid potential liability for a. selling an "intrinsically unsafe" product if something bad happens or b. something bad happens after the purchaser modifies the barrel. Selling the barrels "as is" is no protection.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-...-prod20463.aspx

Are the Hunter Arms barrels for a Hunter Arms Fulton, or a L.C. Smith? If a Smith, the steel should be marked on the bottom of the tubes

Crown trademark


Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
[quote=Drew Hause]
Are the Hunter Arms barrels for a Hunter Arms Fulton, or a L.C. Smith? If a Smith, the steel should be marked on the bottom of the tubes
/quote]

Both.
Lumped them together for now.


Mike
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Originally Posted By: Remington40x
Mike:

What gauge, length and chokes are the Superposed barrels?

Rem


12ga
30"
Approx. .010" and .015"

A friend has 'dibs' on these so I measured them, but haven't cleaned the bores yet.


Mike
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 20
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 20
Mike:

Thanks. They aren't what I was looking for. I was hoping for a set of 20 gauge barrels with tighter chokes to add to my current 28 inch IC/M set.

Rem

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
As Ken said, you will most certainly cover the $120 investment with the realized selling prices of the vintage double barrels by knowing wall thicknesses.
You will also avoid potential liability for a. selling an "intrinsically unsafe" product if something bad happens or b. something bad happens after the purchaser modifies the barrel. Selling the barrels "as is" is no protection.


Besides the liability, you could potentially recoup the gauge cost by avoiding the return shipping charges when someone discovers they've been sent a honed, unsafe set. Let alone the increased value the tubes would have if a buyer actually knows they are safe and usable. Better to know what is arguably the most important aspect of your inventory. What's that we always say? That stuff about having new toys checked out by a competent doublegunsmith?


I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Found a nice sermon illustration wink which many of us know about. I suspect the dealer is now much more circumspect regarding wall thickness measurements, and loaning a gun for a "try out"; which was returned with a bulge in both barrels.
No response to requests for wall thickness measurements on another Forum


Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
No worries about description. Devoutly honest seller. If they have problems it will be disclosed or they won't be sold.

Not my first rodeo w/ doublegun stuff.

This time it may be worth buying the wall thickness gauge. Prices have certainly come down on them.


Mike
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 129
Likes: 4
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 129
Likes: 4
Mike,

I've been casually hunting for a 12ga set of barrels (preferably 28") for a LC Smith No. 1. When you get around to putting them up for sale, please keep me in mind. I'm a bit south of Harrisburg so a FTF might be possible. Thanks.

Marcus

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,313
Likes: 378
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,313
Likes: 378
Originally Posted By: Ken61
Originally Posted By: Drew Hause

You will also avoid potential liability for a. selling an "intrinsically unsafe" product if something bad happens or b. something bad happens after the purchaser modifies the barrel. Selling the barrels "as is" is no protection.


Besides the liability, you could potentially recoup the gauge cost by avoiding the return shipping charges when someone discovers they've been sent a honed, unsafe set.


If the statement about potential liability for selling old barrels "as is" was true, no one would ever sell a junk gun... or junk car... or junk anything. Even perfectly sound barrels sometimes blow up. I'd be interested to hear of even one actual case where someone was held liable for the blow-up of either a gun or barrels that were sold "as is".

Is the seller of barrels with adequate wall thickness responsible for snow, mud, or wasp nests in a gun barrel? What about hot handloads or even magnum factory loads that will enter a short chamber? Who exactly, is the legal authority on what constitutes safe wall thickness?

And return shipping costs virtually always fall upon the buyer who is returning the defective item, unless there was some gross error or negligence in the description, or a prior agreement that the seller would be responsible for return shipping for items sold "as is". I don't know anyone who would make such a warranty.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
If sold on EBay, an "Item not as described" return request is tough for a Seller to avoid.

Top dollar would come if a Buyer expected to receive a set of safe, usable tubes.

Possibly you would win litigation in the end, but, consider the legal costs.

We all know double gun folks are often very knowledgeable and particular, so an excess of information makes a better chance of a sale for true value.


I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Ken,

No worries. I have been on this site since 1997. I know what information to include.

Point was to find sources for pricing. Not a debate about civil law.

EDIT: In a previous career I traveled by road a lot. I hit every gun, pawn, hardware and antique store that crossed my path. A couple dozen members of this forum own (or owned) double guns I found in my travels. No one ever thought I under described their purchase.

Last edited by Utah Shotgunner; 09/14/17 10:12 PM.

Mike
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Originally Posted By: Marc Ret
Mike,

I've been casually hunting for a 12ga set of barrels (preferably 28") for a LC Smith No. 1. When you get around to putting them up for sale, please keep me in mind. I'm a bit south of Harrisburg so a FTF might be possible. Thanks.

Marcus


Marcus, we could cut down a longer set. laugh


Mike
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Remington lost a great deal of money, little of which made it to purchasers of their products, with the AISI 1140 Modified barrel experiment. The index case was a USED (as in second hand sale) 1100 Trap admittedly shot with reloads.
Loitz vs. Remington Arms, 1990
http://law.justia.com/cases/illinois/supreme-court/1990/68367-7.html
Garza Class Action
http://www.gunsmoke.com/guns/rem_lawsuit_intro.html

Of course personal injury lawyers go where the money is, but we should all consider:
1. Sell a barrel to Bubba
2. Who tries out some home chamber and barrel work
3. Tests his handiwork...barrel ruptures...junior get a piece of shrapnel in his forehead. Somebody's gotta pay now for lifetime care.
4. Personal injury lawyer 'splains to Bubba's relatives on the jury that the barrel was unsafe because of the modifications THE SELLER MADE.
5. Seller has no record of measuring bore or wall thickness.
6. Seller loses suit.

Seems like $120 for a wall thickness gauge would be a pretty good investment in today's world. Europe and the UK have CIP to set wall thickness standards. We let juries do that, based on expert testimony.

"As is" in real estate, cars, boats, etc. means there is no warranty. It doesn't mean the seller is free of responsibility for selling something he knew, or should have known, was intrinsically unsafe. Shotguns are hazardous (duh), but not intrinsically unsafe when used as intended.

Dealers of second hand guns do have an implied warranty of fitness of use of the product. I've never seen any gun dealer use the "as is" language; some clearly state "wall hanger not to be shot". And then there is ol' ed wink

Seller is not responsible if Bubba tries a 3 1/2" turkey load in a 2 1/2" chamber classic double because the product was not used as intended/designed. A hardware store isn't liable if someone purchases a piece of pipe and then makes a pipe bomb.

Sorry Mike, but too many dealers are, in my opinion, way too casual regarding wall thickness measurements, and in 2017 barrel value is highly dependent thereupon.

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,313
Likes: 378
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,313
Likes: 378
There is no question that a set of good barrels accompanied by accurate measurement of bore and wall thickness will be more marketable than a similar set sold "as is" with no information. But there is a lot of silly speculation going on concerning what might haappen if "Bubba" buys used barrels or a used gun and manages to blow himself up or injure "Bubba" junior in the process.

So what percentage of active stocking gun dealers have bore and wall thickness tools, and the formal training and knowledge to use them accurately? We all know the answer is well under 5%. And if someone here actually measured a barrel before selling, and kept a written record of those measurents in case of some future catastrophe, what court or personal injury lawyer wouldn't question their methods or their qualifications to take those measurements? Are those measurements witnessed by Nuns and notarized?And just how many points of measurement would satisfy a money grubbing lawyer? Suppose MWT was considered sufficient at every point of measurement every one inch along the full length of the tubes, but you missed a deep pit, flaw, or inclusion. Haven't we discussed barrels that failed shortly after passing British Proof? Does selling a gun that passed British Proof mean a hill of beans if "Bubba" blows it up here in the U.S.A.? What sane and rational person would ever take the risk of selling any gun with all of these pitfalls and Bogey-men?

Lots of wild speculation and hand-wringing anguish over a virtually non-existent risk of being sued into bankruptcy by selling a few used barrels. Let me know if you have a set for a 16 ga. Syracuse Lefever with doll's head rib extension. I'll even provide a signed waiver of liability.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 79
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 79
Hello Utah Shotgunner,
I'm not sure what part of Pa you call home, I'm between Harrisburg and Philadelphia? I can't help you out on the value but I would definitely like to know more about any Ithaca barrels you might have.
Thanks,
Stan

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,089
Likes: 191
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,089
Likes: 191
Keith makes a great three paragraph argument, now six paragraphs, for not owning a wall thickness gauge. I think I will sell mine now that I know there is no reason to own one.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Originally Posted By: eightbore
Keith makes a great three paragraph argument, now six paragraphs, for not owning a wall thickness gauge.


Minus the detail that he is not arguing that point. wink

Anyone want to suggest some places to find ballpark pricing? eBay and Gunbroker haven't turned up much.


Mike
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
FWIW - I clearly jumped the gun on asking this question.

I have to clean and evaluate all of these (and the rifle and single barrel shotgun), photograph and describe, then sell the viable items.

These are going to trickle out. Some just need a wipe and bore snake while others need a trip through the electrolysis tank.

Many of the SxS barrels will get a trip through the tank, as nothing hides from electrolysis. Bores that look good, because the pitting is filled with lead, dirt, grease, etc. don't look so great after they come out of the tank.

Was hoping there was someone, somewhere on the web who had made a business of selling barrel sets that I could use as a starting point. Hoping to avoid having to spend too much time researching before listing each set.


Mike
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,313
Likes: 378
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,313
Likes: 378
Originally Posted By: eightbore
Keith makes a great three paragraph argument, now six paragraphs, for not owning a wall thickness gauge. I think I will sell mine now that I know there is no reason to own one.


I wasn't arguing against owning barrel measuring tools in the slightest. I was only making the point that the vast majority of gun shops that sell millions of used or abused guns do not own those tools or measure shotgun barrels before they sell them to countless Bubba's. They obviously have a lot more exposure than most anyone here who sells or trades a few guns or barrel sets. There is no need to suggest that you risk losing the farm by selling some barrels, whether properly measured, or as-is. Better to worry about serious stuff like using the correct hinge pin grease! I own a Stan Baker Bore Gauge, a homemade wall thickness gauge, and a couple sets of plug gauges that I can also use for removing dents.

This brings up another point. If I set up at some gun shows and measure barrels for attendees and Bubba's as a courtesy, and they then blow up their gun after I tell them it has good MWT, do I then have some liability? And eightbore, if you sell your measuring tools, and someone uses them improperly and misses a thin spot and blows up their gun, are you somehow responsible for that too? Don't forget to send Dave his $10.00 if you sell them here... unless that somehow makes him responsible for accidents or negligence too.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Originally Posted By: Der Ami
Can you put the rifle barrels in the other forum WTS/WTB.
Mike


DA,

Missed this earlier.
I do have an spreadsheet of the barrels I have cleaned, but like the shotgun barrels I haven't priced them yet.

Only picked these up a couple of days ago.

PM or email me and I can send the spreadsheet.


Mike
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Just to take a stab at it, my friend got between $100 and $300 for his modern tubes. The more rare the barrel, either due to gun scarcity or barrel specialization, the more he got.


I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 129
Likes: 4
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 129
Likes: 4
Originally Posted By: Utah Shotgunner
Originally Posted By: Marc Ret
Mike,

I've been casually hunting for a 12ga set of barrels (preferably 28") for a LC Smith No. 1. When you get around to putting them up for sale, please keep me in mind. I'm a bit south of Harrisburg so a FTF might be possible. Thanks.

Marcus


Marcus, we could cut down a longer set. laugh


The horror, the horror.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514
Likes: 13
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514
Likes: 13
Other dimensions that need to be addressed:

Some Makers may have consistant measurements on firing pin center-to-center and width at breachface. Ithaca doubles run all over the place, so these dimensions are needed to determine if they will fit the frame of subject gun.

John

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 94
jlb Offline
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 94
I am interested in the pricing of "extra" barrels. I think that with a new gun an extra set of barrels is often thirty per-cent (or more) of the price of the gun.

Some time ago I posted a message on the forum asking about the availability of a 5E NID receiver and iron to go with a set of VR barrels that are currently fit to my 4E. I found that such a search was a fools errand and someone suggested that they would be interested in the barrels for say $300. I thought wow barrels must not be very valuable. So my question is: if barrels are say $300 on the used market why are they so much more expensive on the new market? Modern guns, like Perazzi with extra barrels do not seem to suffer such a large discount.

jerry born

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
One of the main reasons for a medical malpractice claim is "Failure to Diagnose".

"WNL" is an accepted medical abbreviation for "Within Normal Limits", but sadly usually means "We Never Looked".

"We never looked" (or measured) doesn't cut it in 2017, esp. when wall thickness and bore gauges are $120. Personal injury attorneys are unlikely to spend the time and effort to develop a claim against a small time dealer with few assets however.

My only goal here is to get dealers to do a better job of "looking" before selling.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Maybe this will help.

Hunter Arms would factory fit additional/new barrels to Smith guns for 1/2 of the MRSP.

Figure out (based on the condition of the barrels) the selling price of the whole (same grade/quality) gun and ask 25% of that.
Watching Smith barrels on e-bay, 12g 00 Armor steel extractor barrels, which would be fit to a $500-700 gun in similar condition, are SOLD (not offered) for $150-$200.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514
Likes: 13
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514
Likes: 13
Originally Posted By: jlb
So my question is: if barrels are say $300 on the used market why are they so much more expensive on the new market? Modern guns, like Perazzi with extra barrels do not seem to suffer such a large discount.

jerry born


It is in the fitting. If they would interchange, and just drop in, the used set would have more value. Trouble is they almost never do. Then the fitting starts. If the forend is not with the replacement barrels then the forend lug needs be fitted or moved also. Then refinish work.

John

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
I have bought dozens of barrels over the years. Most were at gun shows for 100-200. I also have fit maybe 15-20 to my own guns. The amount of work involved varies from a hour of tedious minor fitting to you just can't get there from here. Most times even very close serial numbered guns are not likely to be close in fitting. Fitting barrels cost what they do because it's worth it just like a good divorce.

I found that just by taking multiple measurements I could weed out the worst barrels from the start. Doll head extensions are a pain in the zss to fit and make a nice looking job. Then you get into early or late barrel versions. Just because they were made by the same maker does not mean they are really the same barrels. I love Lefevers but they seem to have 79 different barrel combinations. I guess each barrel was struck to the action so no two are alike.

Anytime you hear a seller tell you fitting barrels is a half hour job ask to see what his half hour job looks like. I saw one that they had filled the gaps with JBWeld. That was a nasty looking half hour job. So if you want an extra set of barrels fit to your gun send both to a decent gunsmith and let him evaluate them. After all he's the one going to be trying to make that square peg fit into that round hole.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Ran the worst set of barrels through electrolysis today.

Parker barrels that I couldn't make out the s/n. Now clean enough that the s/n appears to be 49072.

Some black and white color remains, but the barrels are 'etched' along their entire length, inside and out.

What is interesting is how light they are.
30" with a 3/10 barrel weight mark.
Current weight on my postal scale is 3lb 1oz
I thought they were 16ga but they are 12s.

EDIT: These are twist barrels.

Last edited by Utah Shotgunner; 09/16/17 08:01 AM.

Mike
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Anyone remember the serial number range of the Parker lifters that had American made barrels?


I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
John Davis suggested 1877-1879 with SNs 10,000 - 16,000

The Sportsman's Gazetteer, 1878
http://books.google.com/books?id=bowCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA680&dq
PARKER GUNS.From the day when the Parker gun won the First Premium at the Centennial Exhibition until now, it has held its pre-eminence among American guns. The arm is simple, durable, and effective. All have Rebounding Locks and Interchangeable Parts. Twist barrels $50 to $75. Damascus $75 to $300.
This is the only firm which manufactures their own barrels.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12y9006Ur7mMCqdeeye89c7L4DQrc2iXR8p4S6OIN1bA/edit

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Originally Posted By: Drew Hause

Are the Hunter Arms barrels for a Hunter Arms Fulton, or a L.C. Smith? If a Smith, the steel should be marked on the bottom of the tubes


Drew,

Finding your name on a couple of websites as I figure out what Fulton made barrels I have.

So far I have cleaned:
1) Pre-1893 Elsie w/ 'roller' extractor. (Grade 3 I believe.) Damascus
2) Elsie FW w/ London Steel barrels
3) Hunter Arms Co. Elsie (00 Grade) w/ Armor Steel barrels (20ga)
4) Hunter Arms 'Hunter Special' w/ USA-F Barrels (20ga)


Mike
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Originally Posted By: Der Ami
Can you put the rifle barrels in the other forum WTS/WTB.
Mike


DA,

Barrel list and prices added to the WTS Forum.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=490309&#Post490309


Mike
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9

$20.00 off orders today and free shipping. (Needed a couple other items.) So a Wall thickness gauge is headed my way.


Mike
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Two things about the Brownell's Manson gauge.

First, I suggest you make the "Robson Modification", courtesy of MarkII. (shown on the gauge Mark made) It's a piece of metal packing strap, not quite as wide as the rod and slightly bent. It is compressed when it goes down the tube, providing tension to hold the tube against the rod for an accurate measurement.


Second, the gauge's rods are thin enough to measure 20ga and up, so they tend to move a bit, so there is a rubber stiffner provided that goes on both of the rods at the same time. You have to move it and re-zero the gauge each time you make a measurement.

I have mine mounted vertically, on a half inch piece of wood, which brings the gauge out from the wall so it's easy to move the barrel sets up and down along the gauge.

Last edited by Ken61; 09/21/17 08:43 AM.

I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
You might also attach a thin tape to know exactly where you are while measuring


Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
A couple of notes.

As I posted in the sale thread, I am off on a chase today. Probably a wild goose chase. . .

Making an attempt to see if I can run down the guy who may have some of the forends to go with these barrels.

Been holding the prices a bit high with that in mind. (Hate to sell then find forend.) cool

Second, I'll need to start another thread in the WTB forum. Have been cleaning up the single shotgun barrels I picked up.

Sitting by my desk now are:

2) Win-Lite Fiberglass barrels.
1) Win Model 12 Featherweight
2) Remington M-11 WWII w/ 'Flaming Bomb' Ordnance mark.
3) Model 12 barrels
1) Model 97 barrel w/ a 'Power Pac' choke. confused


Mike
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
I think you might get quite a bit more traffic on the non vintage tubes on EBay.


I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
No doubt. Imagine most or all will get there eventually.


Mike
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972
Likes: 23
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972
Likes: 23
Ken61 and Drew, excellent tips on the Manson. I have one, and have a heck of a time getting results I'm confident in. Those tips will help. I also run mine vertically. I built a 4x4 post stand to mount mine to, so I can it around where I need to in a overly crowded space.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Bill: here's my set up (at the Vegas show this year), and it has given me quite reproducible results. 2 bungee cords hold the barrel securely on the box (in which I keep everything for trasport). It is weighted with 25# of shot.
My right arm does get tired carefully holding the gauge so it stays parallel to the bore without touching the barrel wall. It's easy to rotate the barrel without withdrawing the gauge.
I DO need an assistant to record the wall thickness numbers as I call out the location.



Bill Henry also made me a barrel thickness standard which is .038". I secure it to the table with a C clamp and "re-zero" the gauge frequently.


Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Just can't help myself.

Another auction today. Came home with a set of 20ga Parker-Titanic Steel ejector barrels.

Time to sell some of these, not keep buying them!

Good news is that a box from Brownells was waiting for me. Haven't opened it yet, but I expect something looking similar to Drews pic above.


Mike
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 13
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 13
PM sent at 20:13

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
This nifty gauge is a finicky thing to use. . .

Not unexpected, but I didn't get any measurements yet I am confident in.


Mike
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514
Likes: 13
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 514
Likes: 13
Originally Posted By: Utah Shotgunner
This nifty gauge is a finicky thing to use. . .

Not unexpected, but I didn't get any measurements yet I am confident in.


Nearly all precision instruments used in the machinist trade take time to get a "feel" for the tool. Accurate cutting only happens after repeatable, accurate measuring. That is what sets apart a stellar artisan from the group.

Understand all the forces acting on the instrument and use a technique or opposite force to negate it (note Ken61's spring).
Gravity is the biggest culprit. If using the tool in a horizontal orientation, the tool needs calibrated in that position. Then don't rotate the tool or the calibration will likely change as the direction of force changed. This is why I feel it is best to use this type instrument in the vertical position.
Also, temperature will move metal, especial long slender shapes like these rods. If you grab the tool from one location(car, shop, ect...) and take it to another, it needs to stabilize at the new location before calibrating and taking measurements. Once you are calibrated, a warm hand on one spot on the instrument may again shift the readings. Gloves may be a help?(check Drew's isolation hook on the block).

Play with the new toy on known thicknesses(shim stock/feeler gauges) until you get repeatable readings. Once you have a "feel" for the instrument, measure some tubes.

John

Last edited by John E; 09/25/17 10:34 AM.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
John,

Agree w/ all you said. That is why I said "Not unexpected."

Been working with if for a few hours now (over two days) and have started updating the the listings in the WTS forum.


Mike
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 196
OK, we have had wall thickness gauge discussions before. I hope you look at Drew's set up. The secret of using the horizontal tool is that it uses gravity [a constant] , and uses a string or similar to hold the out of barrel end to push the gauge in and out. This eliminates any torque you might put on the gauge if you just grab it with your hand to push it in and out. I was skeptical of the horizontal gauge, but used in Drew's way, it is 100% accurate. I have a vertical gauge, but even with the barrels suspended from a vertical spring, I cannot get readings as accurate as the horizontal gauge gives on "double barrels" My vertical gauge now sits on the floor of the furnace room.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588
Likes: 9
Daryl,

Good to see you still visiting this site.
If you have been reading along, there are a couple of Baker barrel sets. wink

Ah heck, Daryl.
You made me revisit my very limited practice w/ this instrument. Tried Drew's version early on, but didn't have luck with it. Your gravity commment made the light bulb go on over my head.

Now I have to re-measure the barrels as I got more consistent and thicker walls on the the two sets I have re-checked.

Last edited by Utah Shotgunner; 09/25/17 06:41 PM.

Mike
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.304s Queries: 126 (0.256s) Memory: 1.1300 MB (Peak: 1.8990 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 11:05:42 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS