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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,149 Likes: 1147
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,149 Likes: 1147 |
In my neck of the woods pre-war is 1860. +1 SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16 |
C-man, seems to me how good your 1930 gun is might depend on how well Atkin was able to rebuild its work force after 1918. Or, if they didn't have sufficient skilled workers in house, whether they would have gone to "the trade" to fill any holes they might have had among their own workers. The British gun trade, in general, was certainly in better shape in 1905 than in 1930 (when there was also the Depression with which to contend). But you will have a gun that was built under more modern rules of proof. Post-WWII was even worse, for a lot of reasons. The British economy was quite slow to recover, for one thing.
But it seems to me an Atkin made in 1930 wouldn't have had any less handwork than one made in 1905. So much would depend on the skills of the individual workers involved, in both cases. Larry -- I believe that Atkin made guns based on the Purdey version of the Beesley action - a self (spring) opener. But in 1909 they had a model with several improvements in the function of the ejectors and the smoothness of cocking (cocks the tumblers on closing). This is the basic action that they continued with right up to their merger with Grant and Lang in 1960 (I think it was 1960). They are still made by Atkin, Grant and Lang on special order, but I do not know how much of the current work is done in house. It may well be that the Aktins shop force was mainly too old to participate in WWI, but information is fairly scarce. In my research I did dig up information on specialist workers to the trade - barrel makers, mainly, since I started this quest to get a set of 20 CL barrels made for my 16 bore Harkom. Decided to buy a lightweight 12 instead. Always wanted an Atkin gun since I read so much praise for them in English gun books. Guess I'll find out for myself how good they are...
C Man
Life is short
Quit your job.
Turn off the TV.
Go outside and play.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
C Man--I think it likely that Atkin was hiring more apprentices prior to WWI, simply because they were making more guns at that time. But because of all the hand work involved in making doubleguns, so much will depend on who did what. In any case, my guess would be that you'll get a pretty nice gun.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16 |
Well, Larry, we'll see what arrives when the dust settles.
C Man
Life is short
Quit your job.
Turn off the TV.
Go outside and play.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 130
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 130 |
Depends on the maker. For Winchester it is 1942 & before. For German guns I prefer the using pre April 1945 as I have had a number of commercial German rifles/shotguns proofed as late as March 1945. It was after WW2 we started to see a decline in quality
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19 |
In my contry, Norway, pre-war is always before 39. Of course that's just because we where "neutral" during the great war. (More than 2000 sailors died in that war.) If a gun is made during the war, I would refer it to as a War-xxx. I have no clue of the quality of the civil guns made during the war, but i know for sure that the german military mauser got worse. The Norwegian goverment confiscated a lot of these guns, and they chopped the crappy late war guns for parts, while they kept the good ones from earlier production. Then they used the ok parts from the late guns and used them as spare parts for the good ones. Then the mauser got a re-numbering, and was issued to the forces.
I'm not so sure about the argument of so many gunsmiths dying, being a reason for the post WW1 quality and production "problem". I think a trained gunsmith would have a first class ride to the gunshop behind the third line. A contry in war would not waste hard to find, special trained persons they desperate need for gun repairs, as meat for the grinder?
I rather think that the evolution and the marked had evolved from craftsman work for the few before the war, to mass production for the lot after the war. The exeptions exist of course.
/Joar
Last edited by Skrotnissen; 08/18/17 04:15 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96 |
Skrotnissen, I'm just back from a couple of weeks in your beautiful country. I used to own a Norwegian Kongsberg 7.62mm. target rifle with a Mauser action. I wonder if that was made up from an old German action that they left behind. Good rifle that was at its best at 600 and 900 yards. Lagopus.....
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 19 |
Hello Lagopus. Yes, we hav a lot of beutiful places. :-) Glad you liked it. I would belive that's the case with your mauser action. Check out this page, and I'm sure you will find the rifle. kongsberg weapon historic society On this page, they state that Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk used actions from this conversion to build new rifles, and sell them on the civil marked. Mauser rebuild /Joar
Last edited by Skrotnissen; 08/19/17 08:59 AM.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 221 Likes: 44
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 221 Likes: 44 |
Hi,colleagues.The old gun makers in Suhl were sure the best hunting guns made before the WW1.This is not entirely true. High-quality shotguns were made always, until the WW2 and after, although many disagree with this. On this occasion http://wp.me/p461yQ-1H2 http://wp.me/p461yQ-1u6 http://wp.me/p461yQ-1Lc Unfortunately, these articles are not translated yet. Please, use Google Translate. Igor.
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