doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com speaking of light loads

It was not that long ago that I considered 1200 fps and 1 1/8 ounce shot, a 3 dram load, as normal, the 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 hunting loads and 1 1/2 ounce loads heavy duck loads. In the last 30 years everyone has gotten so caught up in the hyper velocity, mega weight loads they have forgotten we killed tons of birds with much more sedate loads. It's almost like they believe a faster load will make up for poor shooting. It does not.

Many years ago I was pass shooting late season doves, along a fence row, with a strong 30 plus mph tail wind behind them. It took me half a dozen shots to figure out for the distance I was shooting them at I needed to triple my original lead. I did not need faster loads I needed to shoot better. After getting the sight picture and figuring out how far to lead them I shot my dozen bird limit in less than a box. My hunting buddy had hit zero birds standing right next to me. He had kept shooting the same way which meant he was about six to nine feet behind every bird. I finally convinced him to double his lead and he got tail feathers. After that he started hitting more than the missed and we were done in about half an hour. But he was a typical shooter who did not want to make adjustments and would fall for the faster is better hype or as some call it the magnum is better trap. A faster arrow does not hit the deer but a better aimed one will.

I started out reloading with a Lee Loader and there were a handful of recipes on the little card that came with it. It selected a Herco load and loaded 1 oz. 20 gauge loads. I quickly moved on to a MEC single stage, but I kept that old Herco load because it worked so well and I shot everything with it from general small game to ducks and pheasants, grouse, etc.. I never felt it wasn't enough and held my own with my buddies with 12 gauges, marsh or field. It was a good load. Then I started shooting trap in my mid twenties and a squad member had a chronograph, so I asked him to check out "my hunting load." I was actually concerned at that point that it might be too hot and possibly dangerous. He got back to me with the results; 1125 fps!

The faster they leave the muzzle the faster they slow down. That is a fact that many of my friends either cannot understand or just ignore.

SRH

Years ago I found if I pushed my .410 loads too hot they tended to have blown patterns. By that, I mean they would have areas which had clumps of pellets and others which only had a few. With today's wads, powders and extra hard shot I see much less of that. It was very upsetting though because I knew every one of my .410 misses in Skeet were caused by blown patterns. Well a few were slow pulls I guess.

This hyper shot speed obsession seems to be worst with Steel shot. You can push the heck out of it and still get tight patterns but Steel is Steel and no amount of extra initial velocity will make it into lead. Those 3 1/2" roman candles are like sticks of dynamite. Plus the recoil becomes a real killer for anything other than a semi automatic. I refuse to shoot Steel shot in any doubles and will just pay what I must for other non steel loads if I can not reload them myself.

As Stan said, "the faster they leave the muzzle the faster they slow down". The physics of it is this: drag quadruples as speed doubles. In other words, if the speed of shot is doubled then the drag forces against it is four times greater. At distances most game or clays are shot this negates much of the benefit of increased speed. I hold all of my reloads to 1200 fps or slower and enjoy superb killing patterns and penetration even at extended range.

I've read that past 30 yards there is no significant difference in velocity due to what you point out. That's why I think this hyper velocity is so much crap. The entire point is to extend killing range and by the distance it would make an improvement the improvement is marginal at best.

If I could just find a good source of Bismuth shot for $40 a bag I'd be happy for most my upland and waterfowl needs. 1150-1200 fps is fine with me in just about any place I want to hunt or shoot.

Joe I was wondering if you could tell me, if enrolled in a shooting school are there Student Loans from the government that I could apply for? I have read that the Government, who makes all the Student loans, is looking at a large default rate and is going to forgive about a third of all student loans. While I would only borrow money to advance my shooting education it would be nice to have debt forgiveness as a future Government program. Perhaps enough to buy and shoot a couple flats or shells a day would be a good start. Maybe a double gun for school purposes.

From an old table published by W/W division, Olin many years ago. Comparing #7� size shot at MV's of 1330 FPS & 1135 FPS. By 20 yds the V's were 930fps & 830Fps, by 40 yds 715fps & 655fps, by 60 yds 580fps & 540fps.
Thus the "Faster" load remained faster all the way, but a 195 fps edge at the muzzle had been reduced to only 40 fps @ 60yds. The slower one would never catch the faster one but the farther they go the less is the difference.
I could be wrong on this but I believe that increased drag being proportional to the square of the velocity is only good below the speed of sound. I believe the drag is even greater than that above the speed of sound with an increase of speed.

At typical game killing ranges the high velocity is not needed, and at longer range, as pointed out, the difference isn't great enough to matter. Beating the hell out of your gun and yourself for no benefit is consumer stupid. A quality pattern on target is what matters.

One other point is that Steel shot sheds velocity much faster than lead shot being less dense. Sure fast Steel will always be faster at any range than Steel which starts out with slower velocity but the difference past 30 yards becomes trivial to me.

I still think shooters have bought this myth that higher velocity is such a great thing in the first place. I've seen deer hunters going to calibers to gain more velocity, more energy and a flatter shooting bullet. But I often ask them if they think it makes any difference inside 200-250 yards. I think it's just a way to stimulate new gun and ammo sales. Find me a deer which can standup to a 30 06, 270 or 7mm at 200 yards. Most people should limit their ranges more and use proper placement of their load or bullet. You are not fighting off starvation for your family. It's hunting for fun not a life or death issue. And I hate game which is lost to waste because hunters were to dumb or lazy to recover it.

Seems to be parallel thinking with pheasant and deer hunters. Always thinking worst case, extreme range scenarios when most deer are shot at less than 100 yards and most pheasants under 30.