doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lite loads

I am trying to decide on what lite 12 gauge shotshells to purchase. I've been shooting reloads of7/8 oz lead at under 1200 fcs and 7000psi.and would appreciate your thoughts on what manufactured loads are comparable. Thanks

I don't reload anymore, so I buy RST or Polywad low pressure shells for my old guns. Google either one for pricing and availability...Geo

Anyone got any idea what the peak pressure is for the Win AA Xtra Lights.

I use the AA Low Recoil, Low Noise, which are even lighter but would be interested to know what the Xtra Lights are. They are usually easier to find in Canada than the Low Recoils.

Independent testing:
Old AACF Xtra-Lite 1 oz. WAAL12 - 1,190 fps - 8,000 psi
New AAHS Xtra-Lite Target 1 oz. AAL12 - 1,180 fps - 8,760 psi

More at the bottom here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview

Caledonian in 3/4 oz or 7/8oz are great shells and they are priced right.
The 3/4 oz loads are real light and break targets.

Holland and Holland had a lite load, same as the Winchester low noise low recoil, 26grams but used a fiber wad. Not sure if they could be used for Damascus, I know the Winchesters can.

I had the chance today to shoot some Herters 12 ga. 1 oz. at 1060 fps. at clays, and found them very comfortable. Thanks Clapper Zapper!
Karl

Thank you Drew!

Drew, thank you for that link!

Canvasback, how do you find those AA, low noise, low recoil shells do with the barrels on your guns?

My experience with the AA, low noise, low recoil shells were that they were the dirtiest burning shells I have ever shot and left my barrels a mess to clean. To their credit though they were low noise, low recoil.

Clever makes a 7/8 12 that is very pleasent to shoot. We have found that they tend to advertise move FPS than they deliver so it is possible that they could make the grade with ease.

bill

Thanks all, unfortunately price is important here as I do shoot a bit. Would love to find something under $75/case

Has anyone published a pressure estimate for 20 ga. �Low noise Low recoil� AA20 980 fps Winchester shells?

Check out the one ounce B & P at Cabelas. The maroon ones are lower pressure and really easy on the shoulder. Sign up with them or get their credit card and you should get discount offers for mail order including free shipping.

1cdog, to tell you the truth, I never noticed anything much different. I don't shoot a lot of clays although I tend to clean the barrels after any days shooting. I'll pay more attention. My stock includes the AA's, Gamebore and RST. I'll see if I notice any significant difference.

B&p Comp 1 7/8 or 1 oz. they're under 6500 pressure, hard shot, 1160 fps and amazingly low recoil. Natchez Shooting Sports or shellsrusllc.com have them at good prices. They're all I shoot in my Mortimer and Alex Martin guns.

cdog - the only dirty shotgun shells are black powder shells, the rest are clean. I can reload low pressure 12ga 3/4oz shells for 3.45 a box. Don't get much cheaper than that. I shoot about 15 boxes a week so I'll stick with the reloads and not worry about looking for a deal.

Thank you,all,for your input. I ordered a flat of the B&P 7/8 oz shells. Hope they work out.

Justin, I know no one who's shot them who doesn't like them. I'll look forward to hearing your impressions.

I just tried to order two cases from Natchez S. S. and they don't do business (online?) with GA. Wonder what's up with that?

SRH

Stan, Natchez is a wholesale distributor to Georgia stores and won't sell to Ga residents directly. Last month they had a special on red dot sights but not to Ga. residents. I called and was told the above. Got a buddy across the River? SC is ok. Gil

Yes, as a matter of fact I do, Gil. Thanks for the tip.

All my best, SRH

Mr. Harm, some shells shoot far dirtier in my guns than other shells. We will have to agree to disagree on that.

As for looking for a deal on shells - perhaps you are confused. I nowhere in this thread mention that I am looking to buy shells. That would be the post from the OP.

Rio 7/8 oz loads would be another option.

At what pressure?

SRH

Gents,

A while back I too was wondering about pressures of various loads markets as "light," so I sent 10 of them (5 shells per load, for averages) to Tom Armbrust.

If you follow the link to the Lefever forum I imbedded it in that thread.

You will note that Winchester "light" loads are really only so compared to standard modern loads. But they aren't light by vintage standards.

I sent him RST Falcon Lites to use as a baseline, as I was curious as to which of the more widely available majors might come close.

See for yourself...

http://lefeverforum.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=1232&highlight=tom+armbrust

- Nudge (aka Sentry44)

Nudge, requires registration to view your post. Anyway you could cut and paste the info to this thread? Gil

GLS,

For some reason I cant seem to copy and paste with my phone. Maybe someone else can do it...?

- Nudge

I believe this is Bro. Nudge's Falcon Lite data
RST Falcon Lite 7/8 oz. - 1214 fps - 5520 psi

RST reported
Ultra Lite 2 1/2� 3/4 oz. - 1125 - 4400
Falcon Lite 2 1/2� 7/8 oz. - 1200 - 5400
Maxi Lite 2 1/2� 1 oz. - 1125 - 5700
Premium Grade Pheasant 2 3/4� 1 1/4 oz. - 1200 - 7800

Drew,

If you can copy that Excel snapshot and paste it in so they can see the rest it would be great. Maybe its just my Android that wont let me copy and paste? The image isnt locked or anything.

- Chris (<-- real name)

Chris: thought I had your Excel, but don't. If you'll send it as an attachment to revdoc2@cox.net I'll try to post it, or the short version anyway

Drew and Chris, thanks. It should be interesting to see. Gil

If I remember correctly the Rio lite 7/8and 1 oz. are in the high 8K range.

Rio 2 3/4�
TLT28SUB 1 oz. - 1050 fps - 6900 psi
TLSK28 & TLT28 1 oz. - 1210 - 7900

Would be quite interested in the 7/8 oz. load if someone has that infro

Gents,

Apologies for dropping off all day...we're lazing away on vacation this week, and I had only books with me at the beach.

I saved an image of the Excel snippet I attempted to share yesterday, and emailed it to Dr. Drew. If that worked, he'll be along later to post it in this thread.

Not that I favor one manufacturer, or product, but someone earlier in this thread mentioned Winchester Lite loads specifically. You will note on my test sheet they came back averaging in the 8,200 range for pressure, already probably at the upper end of what one might want for a vintage double. And further, that the MAX pressure in the group was 9,200...which is only 1,000 below Remington's Nitro load average. (!!!)

Not exactly "lite" by the kind of measure one might have been thinking. While they are indeed genuinely "light" by todays standards, they probably dont warrant that designation in relation to vintage guns.

The Fiocchi's are a bargain at $74 a flat, where I found them. They market them as "trainers," but given the pressure info they clearly fit the bill [for me] for a store bought light 2-3/4 load. That was my purpose in having the test done to begin with.

For my shorter chamber guns I'm sticking with RST Falcon Lites.

- Nudge

Thx Doc!

- Nudge

BTW,

If anyone wonders why I selected the loads I did, my reasoning was to select A) a range of charges, B) a range of prices, and C) locally available to me (other than RST's, which I have to get shipped to my FFL).

Clearly you can see that some of the loads arent marketed as "light," but the advertised charge suggested so.

Obviously, I 'expected' them to finish in order of charge weight. Which for the most part they did, but you can see based on the pressure RANGES that there's more to it than that.

I only wish the majors would make short shell loads too. For those guns I know of only RST and Polywad.

- Nudge

Woops. Looks like we have some significant differences on the Rios. Thought I recalled that they were CIP-marked, but I'm now thinking that's only the 7/8 oz loads. Checked a couple 1 oz boxes. Made in the USA, not CIP-marked. And the pressure listed in the chart would be pushing the max for CIP "standard proof" guns.

I just ordered two flats of the B&P Competition from Cabelas to be picked up at our local store . I have used these for years in my Side x Sides and they are near perfect for this. 6600 psi

L. Brown,

I guess there could be further variance if we'd tested more rounds of each, or perhaps shells from different lots.

I am a bit surprised with the range inconsistency of the Winnies vs Big Green.

Id have thought they would both be tighter than the others. If you use range/average pressure, the Nitros seem impressively consistant. Just more boom than I want to feed my Lefevers.

- Nudge

The big companies load to get the velocity the same no matter which powder mix they have made a deal on for the run they are setting up. As long as it is below SAAMI specs they are good. RST watches both. FYI there are two levels of RIO target shells, std. and light. Seems it makes a big difference.

I may have missed a post but are there pressure data available for the Herters target loads from Cabelas?

Herters for Cabela�s 2016 by Cheddite, Italy
http://www.chedditeitaly.com/en/index.php
Target Low Recoil 1 oz. - 1060 fps - 9,200 psi (tested)

Struck out finding anything on Herter's 16's on the website.

I shot a box of the Herter's Low Recoil 12 gauge ammo today in a 6 lb. 7.5 oz SKB 200E. They broke targets with authority (I thought) and kicked noticeably less than my 7/8 oz reloads. Super low recoil. They were 1 oz. 7.5's @ 1060 fps

Nice shooting loads!

I've got a friend in SC ordering me three flats from Natchez Shooting Supply. They look to be perfect, and at $6.90/box, with free shipping, they're not much higher than what I shoot in the Perazzi.

SRH

Stan keep us updated on them please

Will do.

SRH

Stan, which shells did you order? Gil

These, Gil.

My bad, they are $6.70, not $6.90.

https://www.natchezss.com/b-p-competition-one-shotshells-12-ga-2-3-4-in-1-oz-8-1160-fps-25-ct.html

SRH

Does anyone have the 20ga data for the following:

RST Ultra lite, 3/4oz
RST Falcon lite, 7/8oz
Polywad, Vintager , 3/4oz
Win AA Low Recoil, 7/8oz
Estate GTL , 7/8oz

Thanks,

John

John, I contacted RST last year for the same info. They told me:
20ga.
Ultralite 2-1/2" 1100FPS 3/4os were 6000psi
Falconlite 2-1/2" 1125fps 7/8oz were 7200psi

Hope this helps.
Bill

I KNOW THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, BUT I SHOT SOME B&P 7/8 OZ AND SOME OF THE 1 OZ COMPETITION AND THE 7/8 SEEMED TO KICK MORE THATN THE 1 OZ ?? ANYONE ELSE HAVE THIS EXPERIENCE? I HAD NOTICED IT BEFORE

LS, I think whot you are dealing w/is that the 7/8oz. loads are likely really more like 24gram Bunker rounds loaded to somewhere N of 1300 fps vs. the F2 comp 28gram loads that are really quite mild to shoot. If you cut one ea. apart I think you will also see they are loaded w/two dif. powders.

FWIW, I purchased some Italian 'Centurion' 3/4oz 12ga. rounds that stated they were 1425fps on the box and found them right 'snappy'. Abrupt by any def. & they felt to me like they had more recoil than most 32gram target loads!

Maybe I can simplify things. Jog someone's memory a little.

In the B&P shells:

The Maroon/grey box are Comp1's

The GREEN/Silver ish box are the F1's
THEY ARE 1300 fps sporting clay loads.

Again Maroon is Low, Green is Fast.
Repeat,
Maroon is Low, Green is fast.

They 7/8 Comp1 load is by far the best 7/8 load for low pressure and moderate velocity I have ever found.

I'll run 4 boxes through my 1894 Remington tonight without concern.
Too bad they don't make a 21gram load at 1100.
And you guys are stealing them all on me.

I though I was kicking it at $7.50/bx delivered.
I guess it makes up for all those Herter's I bought last year.

It's just a promo that allow free shipping, from Natchez. It runs out tonight. Look for promo code FS170170.

Get 'em while you can!

SRH

I forgot to tell my buddy in SC to use the free shipping promo. I just called them about it and, even though the order has already been processed, they deducted the shipping charges from the credit card account.

Good customer service. No ..........very good customer service.

SRH

I ordered a flat of the B&P Comp1 1oz 12ga from Natchez.
Also a flat of the Comp1 7/8oz 20ga.

During my online search I found these at Academy and got a flat of Estate 20ga, 7/8oz, 1210fps @$4.98/box They don't even show them online today but my store had them instock.

This has been a good thread.

John

Allen Chubb has very good pricing on B&P. Free shipping on 96 flat orders. Earlier this year we paid $54.50 for Comp One 7/8 oz and $57.50 for 1 oz. .410s were less than $60.00. Numerous references on Trapshooters.com. Heard there is also a break on shipping when ordering 28 flats or more but check with him first.

Allen �Butch� Chubb
Master Range Program Distributor
Baschieri & Pellagri, USA
302 Tennessee Avenue
Elizabethville, PA. 17023
717-903-9009 Cell
717-362-1966 Fax
achubb@globalshootingsports.com

Tim, the Global Shooting Sports link appears to be dead. I did a little online searching, but I can't find it.

The Comp One shells are indeed excellent and soft shooting. I shot a flat a few years ago at the yoop shoot.

Dave,

Try an email and you should be able to get a price list. Or give him a call. Nice folks to work with.

tim

Thanks, Tim.

I'll give him a shout.

Might check out Aerostar Outdoors and look at their specials they are running right now. $60 per flat isn't bad. Pressures on the lighter loads are less then 8000 PSI in the 20 gauge (Competition One)..

What's a 20 gauge?

My three flats of these shells came today. $67.00/flat delivered. Anxious to try them in some of my vintage guns.

Thanks again, Tom, for the heads up on Natchez S.S.. And to Gil for reminding me they could be shipped to S. Carolina.

SRH

I think you'll like them, StN. They're really soft and they got me two punches at Nationals. Jon shot nothing but these for two years, and he devastates targets.

Winchester has low recoil in 12 and 20g at 980 fps #8's. $2. per box rebate if you by more than 8 boxes. Limit 100

Another interesting "find".

When the shipment came yesterday there was a "Master Catalog" included. I got to looking through it at factory .410 loads and, lo and behold, B & P also loads a Comp 1 loading in 2 1/2" .410. The payload is 1/2 oz., nothing special about that but .............. get this ............... $6.60/box. I'm gonna get a couple boxes to pattern and play with. Almost sounds too good to be true.

Any of my fellow little gun enthusiasts here ever patterned them?

SRH

I once shot the steel door of an abandoned car my buddy and I found in the woods, long ago. It shot back...Geo

Been down on patterning ever since.

You sound like a shooting buddy from Millen. He has a nice sized pond on his property that he keeps mowed 'n manicured around. After he turned his riding mower over trying to mow the slope of the pond dam, the second time, and broke his leg, he went and got his AK 47 and shot the mower 30 times. He said, to ensure he wouldn't do it a third time.

I allowed as how the mower wasn't his problem.

He's fun to shoot with. I can talk him into missing a couple nearly every round if I time my comments right.

SRH

An update: I shot the B&P 7/8oz loads yesterday and they felt far softer than the RSTs I have used in the past and broke the targets with authority.