doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Moving POI

No, John, I haven't, and I probably should. But, the reason I haven't is that, given the huge allowance that most major gun companies have with regulation, I would really be surprised if they agreed to do anything about it. I think it is off roughly 7-8", each barrel. As I mentioned, Beretta won't do anything unless their barrels impact more than 8" off POA. That's ridiculous, but it is what it is.

I may try give them a call soon just for funsies, though, to see what their reply would be. Won't cost me anything but a little time. I guess I will have to call Cabela's, where it came from, to get the number of Dickinson, who I believe is in California.

What would you suggest, Tom, if you read this?

Thanks, SRH

I spoke with a top shotgun barrel man yesterday, at length, about the issue with the Dickinson. He discussed with me his method of moving POI by altering fixed chokes, and agreed to give it his best shot but suggested that I press Dickinson hard to remedy the situation with a new barrel set. He feels that moving the patterns nearly 8" is a very tall order for a .410.

My friend John's suggestion was right on the money, and that will be my next course of action.

All my best, SRH

Good luck Stan. I hope Dickinson helps you! If not, 8" is a lot to remedy at the choke. Might be better to remove ribs, move barrels apart a bit and relay the ribs (since right barrel is shooting 8" left and left barrel is shooting 8" right). In terms of analysis of POI, sometimes I like to shoot at scum on a pond. It helps me analyze where a gun is shooting. Also, if you can smoke low 7's on the skeet field, then the gun is likely shooting where you are looking.

This requires a correction of near 30 MOA per barrel. That's half a degree. The barrels shoot to POI near a full degree of arc apart.

Were we to pivot the barrels, depending on the pivot point, someplace between .1 and .25" of movement per side would be needed.

This is not a minor assembly error.

What we don't know is how the barrel set is assembled, by cold or hot solder, brazing, or what combination where. Only the factory could tell us.

The whole fiasco leads me to the conclusion that the barrels were assembled on a jig, scaled down from a larger gauge gun without any sort of testing whatever. It's highly possible that each and every copy of this model has the exact same issue.

I think you are on to something here, 'Jones.
JR

A recent 'Shooting Sportsman' has a Dickinson review by somebody named Bruce Buck.

It's a remarkable article in many ways. It's easily available online, first pop up on Google search.

The one good takeaway is that the guns supposedly come with a 'lifetime warranty' although the writer did state that as long as a trigger was 'functional' they would not adjust pull weight under warranty. The trigger in question was north of 7 pounds, so one does wonder what 'acceptable' POI might be to this warranty department.

The guns (two 28 gauge samples) got a favorable review in spite of heavy triggers on one of them that 'lightened with use', the need to apply finish oil coats to one gun, and chokes that measured too open in the author's opinion. Never mind the frequent misfires, since that also got better with use.

Just incredible.

In spite of the grousing about chokes that 'measure' too open, the guns were apparently not pattern tested, or if they were the results were not published or mentioned. We have no information from this article how the guns shoot, or where they shoot. Even American Rifleman, as bad as that publication has become, pattern tests shotguns as part of a 'review'.

Bruce Buck apparently has a book for sale with more of these penetrating and critical expert shotgun reviews. Sign me right up.

Further search reveals an American Hunter review from 2013. Guess what... no pattern or POI testing. Same with Field and Stream, and the Dickinson made the author's 'short list'. One wonders what it takes to not make the cut.

They all agree... the guns 'look good and are priced right'.

L. Brown, what has happened to your industry?

Is this payola or true ignorance?

Thinking out loud: How fast are your loads going? Could slower and/or heavier ones be usefully used, so as to regulate in the way a double rifle might be regulated ie longer time in the barrel/heavier projectile weight imparts more "up" and "out" to the POI??

The first 2 posts cover that question well.

The patterns shown are a 3" factory game load.

It's a .410, well known for it's punishing recoil.