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#484342 06/30/17 07:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
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gold40 Offline OP
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First, i am not "knocking" Damascus barreled shotguns, but do have a few business/legal questions.

I have satisfactorily owned, shot clays, and hunted with several Damascus barreled SxS's. I use my own handloads, below 6,000 psi with zero problems. I'm comfortable using a Damascus shotgun with proper loads.

My question concerns any legal issues with a commercial dealer selling Damascus barreled shotguns. My impression is that many/most/some dealers won't sell these shotguns, due to a potential legal liability if the new owner were to be dumb enough to shoot modern high pressure factory loads.

We have a few attorneys on this board. QUERY: (1) Does a gunshop incur any legal liability in selling a Damascus shotgun? (2) Do they ask the buyer to sign any special acknowledgement or legal release? (3) Are you aware of gun shops that won't sell a Damascus shotgun because of potential legal liability? (4) Have there been actual lawsuits tried on this question?

I see the big gun auction houses (Julia, RIA) selling Damascus guns....

Is there a legal issue here, or are some dealers just overly cautious?

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I have bought several Damascus barreled guns from dealers. None had me sign anything other than the BATF form 4473 (these were not pre 1899). None related to me any warning about What to or Not to shoot out of them. Beyond that someone else will have to answer.
I am not personally aware of a dealer refusing to sell a damascus barreled gun but perhaps if there were none on the racks, this was why & I just didn't know the reason.


Miller/TN
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I'm glad we're not signing releases to buy old guns. That could get out of hand very quickly.

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A liability release isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Local gun club requires a release form be signed to shoot.

"So, dues will go down because we don't have to buy insurance now, right?"

Blank stare.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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There's a definite trend towards extrapolating liability as broadly creative minds will go. Hopefully we don't help. The only person that should be liable for anything is the person that makes the decision to discharge any firearm.

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I am fairly certain firearms dealers (and manufacturers) enjoy broad immunity from liability. Probably moreso than other retailers who can be sued all the way down the chain for manufacturing defects, failure to warn, etc.

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/other-laws/gun-industry-immunity-statutes/

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Firearms manufacturers certainly do not enjoy broad immunity from lawsuits for defective products. They are, however, protected from frivolous lawsuits filed in an attempt to collect damages arising from the intentional misuse or criminal use of their Constitutionally protected product. Here's a story about the Class Action lawsuit filed against Remington over the malfunctioning triggers of Model 700's

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/02/remington-settlement-deadly-rifle-defect-too-lenient/

However, attempting to sue a dealer for selling an antique Damascus shotgun that blew up because some idiot fired 3" Magnum slug loads in it would be the same as attempting to hold a car dealer or even Ford Motor Co. liable for an accident where someone was injured in a Model A Ford that didn't have seat belts or airbags.

So who are these dealers who are purportedly refusing to sell Damascus guns? And will they also refuse to sell a .38 special just because some idiot may force a .357 Mag into the cylinder?


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Many states do not allow suits if you contributed to the failure. Example, putting a 3 1/2" shell in a gun made for 2 3/4" shells. Or driving a golf cart on the road at high for it speed then hitting a telephone pole.

As to Damascus failure most people understand guns made 100-150 years ago might be weak due to age alone and a reasonable amount of caution should be excercised.

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We have been warned against using Pattern Welded barrels by Industry experts since SAAMI passed this resolution March 26, 1937:
“That an appropriate warning label be placed on all boxes containing smokeless powder shells, cautioning the consumer against using them in short chambered guns and also in guns with Damascus barrels and guns not in first-class condition.”

“These shells must not be used in guns with Damascus or Twist Steel barrels” warning appeared on shell boxes shortly thereafter.

RST boxes state: "To prevent injury to shooters or bystanders, use only in modern shotguns (not Damascus twist barrels, etc.) with proper gauge, load, and chambers."

SAAMI continues that warning; see p. 12 & 13
http://www.saami.org/PDF/FAQ.pdf

Those of us foolish enough to ignore that warning can not then hold a dealer responsible for our foolishness.

HOWEVER - should a piece of shrapnel from my damascus barrel penetrate the skull of my friend (or grandchild) leaving them bed-ridden and mute for the rest of their not-much-of-a-life, I will most certainly be held responsible.

The hard question is "What exactly IS my obligation to assure the safety of barrels which have been deemed by experts to be intrinsically unsafe?" and does "But a gunsmith said 'Should be fine with light loads.'" represent due diligence?

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Liability is generally tied to causation. Sometimes liability is divided or tied to the last party who could have prevented an occurrence.

Manufacturers of new guns are held liable under products liability for manufacturing defects. If damascus barrels were to become commercially produced again today it might become a question as to whether the product was the cause of an occurrence or was the user for firing modern ammo despite the published warning on the shell box out of which he pulled the shell...Geo

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