March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
4 members (Dale May, NZHunter, SKB, 1 invisible), 308 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,373
Posts543,977
Members14,389
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 14 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 13 14
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
ellenbr Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
Indeed from Westley Richards thru Francotte. If we could find info on the APUN payments we'd have it(follow the money). I don't recall the A&D Body Action patent being filed in Suhl but the mechanics rode several different platforms in an attempt to settle on one while the A&D Body Action protection period played out.

Charles Daly, or his agents, were the thread that binds from Scott to Tolley, Lindner and forward to the Belgian example below:

http://www.hallowellco.com/charles_daly_Sidelock%20Side%20by%20Side%2020%20Gauge%20prewar.htm thru Francotte.

Note, they, S,D&G, always defines the Modell by Quality Number.....

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
ellenbr Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181


Ken61:

What number is the above? I'm looking for examples in the 2nd series w/ Crossed Sidearms surmounted by a Crown & are devoid of the SAXONY state of origin stamp. There should have been 200 or so examples before the state of origin stamp SAXONY was applied.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
ellenbr Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
Seems the transition to be compliant went thru a couple iterations: Saxony - Thüringen - Prussia.

Broadly:
215 - 350 - Saxony
350 - 500 - Thüringen
550 - Prussia.

Apparently there were a 1/2 dozen or more of Schaefer's offerings marked Thüringen. I wonder what he was up to in 1892?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Originally Posted By: ellenbr


Ken61:

What number is the above? I'm looking for examples in the 2nd series w/ Crossed Sidearms surmounted by a Crown & are devoid of the SAXONY state of origin stamp. There should have been 200 or so examples before the state of origin stamp SAXONY was applied.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


It's #248, so, a second series gun before the second mark was used
Regards
Ken

Last edited by Ken61; 01/21/17 07:25 PM.

I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
ellenbr Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181


http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20a/a%20ancion%20dd%20et%20fils%20gb.htm

With a tip of the hat to PeteM's efforts.


Just a few note on Liege tube sourcing set up by Charles Daly. Ancion & Cie.(Alfred Ancion, Dieudonné Ancion(father), Jules Ancion), Auguste Francotte, Renkin Frères, Pirlot Frères all combined to form Société des Anglais and by the time with which we are concerned, I'm sure some of the above were still picking up the pieces. Auguste Francotte is also a thread that binds or a staple when one considers @ the Daly-Suhl-Liege sourcing. At 1st, Daly was sourcing Dieudonné Ancion / Société des Anglais for in the white wares and then Val. Chr. Schilling was bringing it to final form and passed thru the Lindner shop. Next, rough pattern welded tubes were forwarded to Schilling, possibly along w/ a Gesteck, and the whole lot was assembled and passed under H.A. Lindner's quality control eye & he applied his mark noting approval. An alternative was that all was shipped to Lindner & he dispersed it to his subcontractors, but I'm not sure here.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
ellenbr Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
Originally Posted By: ellenbr

Charles Daly Nr. 1581 wears the Crossed Sidearms surmounted by a Crown and Nr. 380, as well as 322, also wears the Crossed Sidearms surmounted by something, which makes me wonder if the transition from Crown to HAL was somewhat into the 2nd series? Nr. 854, has Script L above HAL and Nr. 955 has HAL.


Can't seem to quickly put my fingers on an image of an example akin to Nr. 854 w/ Script L but I have strong suspicions that Lepage - Schaefeer & Kaufman(Gustave)-(CAC touchmark) were in Daly's sourcing modell.


Schaeffer & Kaufman - Liege Belgium, Hart E. Berg - agent - 281 Church Street, New York(1889 Merchant listing)

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
I've recently received the barrels from Daly #113X, a 10ga gun that will be going into my next run. The set has only the rib lettering and the serial number, so I would put it into the first Lindner serial number sequence, yet prior to the use of the first Lindner mark. To me, the pattern looks like Bernard, and what coloring remains looks like Black & White. Sooo, possibly supporting even the early guns were Black & White. Since it's so early, I'd attribute it to Georg.



Regards
Ken


I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
ellenbr Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
Most interesting, but I'm not convinced just yet. Any initials on the underside of the tubes just forward of the flats?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
No other marks are present. I don't have the rest of the gun, but I'll ask the owner as to what marks are on the action flats. One thing interesting about this set is that it's the first set of Vintage tubes I've seen that still has some small patches of lacquer remaining. No doubt it is probably due to relacquering rather than original, but at least it shows that at some point an effort was made to preserve the coloring, either the original or a recoloring effort.

Regards
Ken

Last edited by Ken61; 06/29/17 07:25 AM.

I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
ellenbr Offline OP
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 181
Thanks Ken. From our guesstimates on dating Dalys, do you recall if Nr. 275 falls in 1878? I'll have to re-read to refresh.

Ah, wrong thread. I guess I should move the images over.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Page 9 of 14 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 13 14

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.066s Queries: 35 (0.041s) Memory: 0.8660 MB (Peak: 1.8988 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 09:50:32 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS