doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Favorite 7/8s 12g load

I've been shooting 1oz loads for most of my clays shooting but for skeet I'm planning to load 7/8s of 8.5s (I have them just sitting).

So what are your favorite loads. I use STS and Gun Club hulls.

Tim

Right out of the older Accurate Arms book: 15 grains Nitro 100, Winchester primer, Winchester gray wad, 7/8 oz. shot(I use 8's for skeet and clays) OLD STYLE, compression formed AA cases, 4900 psi, 1145 fps. Caution, the newer AA shells produce higher pressure!
And always verify with the booklets.

Tim;

My standard target load for many tens of thousands of rounds has been 1 oz of #7.5 at 1235 fps. I recently set out to load an "economy" practice load using Gun Club hulls which I can pick up free by the hundreds.

I settled on 7/8 oz of #8.5 with the Claybuster clone of the Win 12L gray wad and 16.8 grains of Red Dot. It runs 1225 fps out of my gun with a std dev of about 10......pretty good consistency.
The Alliant data says 16.5 grains with a R209 would deliver 1200 fps @ 8,000 psi.........my bushing happens to drop 16.8 and I'm happy.

As a practice load, it's a winning result........slightly higher pellet count at the same velocity, with lower recoil and cheaper than my 1 oz load. In practice, I shoot about 3 boxes of the 24gm 8.5 for every box of 28gm 7.5.

There are many combos to chose from if you use the W12L wad and a fast powder.

I use win AA hulls win 209 primer, grey clay 7/8 clayduster wads 16.9 gr Clays 8 1/2 shot 1250 fps, 7100 lup. I"ve been using this for a couple of years skeet and sporting clays shooting and am well satisfied. This is in the Hodgden manual. Hope this helps.

I've just started using 13.1 gr AA Lite with the AA grey wad and WW primers with 7/8 oz. #9's. Works great for skeet, and I even went 25 straight with it on on 16 yd trap. Have used it in both old & new style AA hulls. Hodgdon loading sight shows it at about 5500 PSI.

For several yeas now I've been using the STS hull with a Remington 209P primer, 16.4 grains of Clays, a Remington TGT12S wad and 7/8 ounce of shot. Book says 1200 fps at 6300 psi.

I am using the same load Jim Legg described except, 14.5 gr Nitro 100- Fiocchi primer- pink Down Range wad.

I have loaded 7/8 ounce loads for many years, but only recently desired to have pressures down to Damascus levels. I looked at my loads, determined that my 1200 fps loads were not off the scale for pressure, so modified them just a bit to reduce pressure to a safe sounding level, intending to test them for sound and effect when cold weather comes. The lowest velocity and pressure that Alliant publishes for my preferred components (Red Dot and Federal SO or WW Grey wads in AA compression formed hulls and WW 209 primers) is about 16 grains of Red Dot at 8000 PSI with SO wad to make 1200 fps. The WW grey wad with 16.5 grains nets 7900 PSI at 1200 fps. I have used tens of thousands of those loads in the last 15 years without complaint. In my infinite wisdom, I have reduced my Red Dot charge to about 15.2 grains to get what I estimate to be 1160 fps and less than 7000 PSI, a load friendly to shoot in any gun and safe to shoot in Damascus guns, maybe even in cold weather. I have started inserting a thin 20 gauge card wad (or a kidney bean or two if you prefer) in the shot cup to properly fill the shell. I only offer this load because it uses proven book pressure information as well as cheap and common components. No boutique wads, powder, or hulls needed. I have probably shot about 1000 or 1500 of these reduced loads in the last few weeks with great results.

My favorite recipe for 7/8 oz. loads is:

Remington Premier STS hull
Remington STS 209 primer
19.5 grains IMR PB powder
Claybuster CB1100-12 wad
4300 psi at 1145 fps

The same load in a Winchester AA hull reduces the pressure to 4200 psi at the same 1145 fps.

These are published recipes from the IMR booklet. No fillers are necessary or needed. They are very mild and clean. I shoot these loads in my damascus gun as I like a good margin of safety and have never had a blooper when shooting them in near zero degree temps. (I do keep the shells indoors until I go out to shoot in these kind of temps as I have heard reports from others that very load pressure loads in very cold temperatures can lead to bloopers).

I'm surprised they publish such low pressure loads, Bamboozler, but if they sound good, they should be as good as mine. Alliant will not publish a load as low in pressure as 4500 PSI, but going from Red Dot to Green Dot and dreaming up a load will get you to the same place, but I would rather use a published load as you have. Thanks.

I just went on the Alliant site and they are promoting a new powder called E3, which is exactly the same burning speed as Red Dot. Hmmm. They publish a low pressure 7/8 load with my components (Grey WW wad, WW 209 primers, AA CF empty) using 17.6 grains of their American Select powder giving 6200 PSI. Knocking the charge down a half grain should give us about 1150 and less than 6000 PSI, what we are looking for. I hate to add another powder to my collection, but a keg of American Select won't be a big complication. That should be a great Damascus load for those of us who have always used Alliant powders. It sounds like Red Dot will be replaced by the E3 since the burning rate is identical. In the meantime, I will continue to load my 15.2 grains of Red Dot that I estimate at just under 7000 PSI with the AA grey wad, WW 209, and AA CF hulls. It is a real softie.

I don't think Accurate Nitro 100 is all that exotic or "boutique". I load JL's load but in a Federal SO; maybe some puffed rice on top of the shot for a nice crimp.

jack

Jack, I didn't describe anyone's components as "boutique" or "exotic", but as long as you mentioned it, what do you think my terminology refers to? And why would you imagine I make a feeble attempt to avoid what I consider "boutique" components? Murphy

WIN AA hull, 16.4 CLAYS, Nothing But Dust Green wad, win209.

I'd guess the prospect of long-term availability for "boutique" components isn't very good? Exotic would be the word I put in the mouth of your word boutique.

jack

I use Remington STS hulls, Remington STS 209 Premier primers, 16.9 grains of Hodgdon Clays powder, and Clay Busters 4100 wad for my 7/8 ounce loads in 12 gauge. The estimated PSI is 5,800.

At times I've used WAA12L wads with 18 grains of Hodgdon Clays, but they're a pain to reload and catch on the plastic rim of the hull.

Hmmm, I haven't tried a 7/8 oz 12g load yet. My 12g PW is set up for 1 oz and has been for a couple decades. Like Tim, I've just been shooting 1oz in my damascus guns. But, I've given thought to having 2 low press loads, a 1 1/8 oz and a 7/8 oz. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, having just one load and changing shot size for the game is clean and simple. I'll have to think about it some more.

You're right, Jack. If I dream up a load, or find one in a manual, I want to be able to get the components forty years from now. That has worked until now but it looks like some of our favorite stuff is becoming obsolete. I can't get used to this 21st century business! I started using Red Dot about 1959, never switched my 12 gauge target load powder. Now I guess I'll be buying E3.

Years ago I reloaded thousands of rounds of 7/8 oz. loads when the International Trap (Bunker) rules specified that charge weight as the upper-bound limit on shot volume. My best recipe was Win AA case; W 209 primer, 18.7 grains of 700X under the Federal 7/8 oz. wad (I think it was the SO 3) and 7/8 oz. of high-antimony ("magnum") shot. It is a great load; high velocity with realtively low recoil and I think the pressure is somewhere up in the 9800 psi. range. Probably way too stout for Damascus guns but a real target crusher in a fluid steel gun. KBM

Ortolan's load is a wonderful "non boutique" load for modern guns. His mention of the SO Federal wad reminds me of another point. This excellent wad is superior to any other "big three" wad for 7/8 ounce loads because its constuction eliminates the tipped wad problem that sometimes haunts us with less well constructed wads. You just can't "tip" a Federal SO wad in any loader that I am aware of.

Chuck, do you have the quick access feature on your old PW? This is one accessory that is worth the money. You can change shot and powder bushings without draining the reservoirs. I have converted all of my old 800Bs to this feature. It makes switching from one ounce to 7/8 ounce loads a piece of cake. I don't know how much it costs but it is worth every penny. If you forget what you have in the bushing cavity, you can remove the cap,look down at the bushing and read the number off the top of the bushing, change it if you wish, all without touching the shot or powder.

WW AA hull
WW 209 primer
CB 1100-12 wad
23.5 grains of IMR 7625
1150 fps
3500 psi

This works well at sporting clays and you can hardly feel the gun go off. I shoot it through Damascus and Twist Parkers.

Harry

I too started using 7625 this summer with great results. American Select is a very clean powder and works well with 1 oz. loads. Isn't there something out there called Promo that is loaded like Red Dot. It seems Red Dot has a number of imitators, that should tell you something.

Murph,
Just my .410 Plat 2000 has the EZ access top plate and short hoppers. The 12g 900 has the standard top plate that requires draining the hoppers.

eightbore, I suspect there isn't a great difference in brissance between RD and Nitro 100. I base that conclusion on the charge wgts. being similar for any given shot wgt. and velocity. The major difference seems to be that Accurate is listing a lot of low pressure loads (including 3/4 oz) and Alliant isn't. I load a lot of Promo for skeet but right now loading mostly Nitro 100 1oz. load for my delicate and beautiful Flues trapgun. I save the 7625 for 16 ga.

jack

Similar charge weight to make a similar velocity will have absolutely nothing to do with the burn rate of a powder, burn rate being the factor that determines suitability for specific loads. Red Dot and Nitro 100 could have similar burn rates, but it would be a coincidence unrelated to the weight of powder required to propel a shot charge at a certain speed. I do agree that Alliant is a little short on low pressure 12 gauge light loads.

2003 Accurate reloaders guide equates Nitro 100 with Red Dot, Solo 1000 with GD, Solo 1250 with PB as "comparative powders" (probably means comparable powders). Equation must be based on relative speed. But I stand corrected.

jack

Promo is Alliant's bargain powder. Loads the same as Red Dot but density is purported to vary from lot to lot. Don't rely on a bushing alone for powder drops, weigh them again when opening a new container of Promo...$77 for 8#.

Two of the advantages of using a powder like Nitro 100, rather than 7625, PB or some of the others, most of which cost more per pound than Nitro 100, are lower cost and less recoil. Using 24 grains of one powder vs. 15 grains of another will produce more recoil. Not a great amount of difference on these very pleasant loads we're talking about here, but I have used the others and can feel the difference.

Shame on you, Jim. You know very well that weight and velocity of ejecta are the only significant indicators of recoil and weight of powder charge does not enter the equation. Red Dot, Nitro 100, PB, and 7625 have very different burning rates and are not suitable for all the same loads, even though they may be suitable for some similar loads. Charge weight is not a factor in determining powder substitution except by coincidence. Should we change the title of this thread to "Old wive's tales of reloading"?

eightbore,

Ugh, Jim has it right. The weight/mass of the powder is calculated in the recoil formula. You have to push the powder/powder gases down the barrel also. I think there is a formula on trapshooters.com that shows this (I don't visit that site).

This is why a similiar blackpowder load of the same velocity and shot weight will recoil more than a smokeless load. You have to push all that BP crap down the barrel.

Apologies, but you are wrong on this one.

Mike

I hope you're joking! Just in case you're serious, the powder charge is most definitely part of the ejecta. If you are pulling my Legg, it's a bit longer now.

I hope both of you are joking when you claim to be able to tell the difference on recoil between a load that weighs 500 grains, including shot, wad, and powder and a load that weighs 509 grains, especially when a good part of the extra nine grains of powder are in gasseous form on ejection. You guys are both victims of the "Old wive's tales of reloading". Jim's original statement was obviously meant to imply that a heavy load of powder in a published load would recoil noticably more than a lighter load of powder in a load of the same shot weight and velocity. It is plain not true and is "An old wive's tale". I personally think he was joshing, I hope Mike was aware of the joke. I'm not sure. Remember Mike, Jim said he could "feel the difference". I am amused.

The only joke is on you. I could feel it, whether you believe it or not. The difference is about 1 ft.lb recoil energy. The world is full of people who insist they can "feel" less recoil with longer farcing cones. A recoil reduction that doesn't exist. Chuckle away but if you think the powder weight is not a very real part of the ejecta you need to read the book again.