doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 100 year maintenance on a Darne.

I've posted in the past about the typical 50 year maintenance on a Darne R model, mostly just pulling the front wood off, cleaning around the triggers, retensioning the pin for the main spring, and putting a dash of lube where it will do some good. For most of the guns out there, this will be all they need.

But, every now and then, you have to get further in, so to speak.

This is an interesting gun. It shows little to no use, but, is in far from nice condition. It is old, the barrel flats are marked 6.5 instead of 65. It also has contoured detonators, a feature much more common a decade or two prior to WWII, and not seen much after the war. There are a variety of serial numbers in the gun, and it has a few fitting issues, two of which I have resolved, a balky safety button, and frozen ejection mechanism. The trigger pulls are horrific. I'm not done solving fitting issues, either.
I do know it was a WWII bring back. The nasty liberal I bought it from tipped her hand too soon, saying she didn't want it in her home, which lead to a good deal for me.



This is a view of a push button safety, something I didn't think was used until James Wayne was importing the guns. This example was poorly fitted, first time I have had reason to find fault with metalwork on a Darne. This safety is different from the one used on the James Wayne guns.



That being said, when the safety is in the on position in an R model Darne, the sears and triggers are blocked, and the gun cannot fire, period.

This is where angels, and most good gunsmiths, fear to tread:



This is a stripped R model breech block. I'm not going to tell you how to do it, as I'm sure not making that public will save me some grief and time on the phone in the future. I will tell you it can be taken to this point with a screwdriver, a small brass hammer, and a bent nail, assuming you have two good hands.

I've told people that they can feel free to dry fire a Darne if the barrels are in place on the gun. This is why. The Darne is striker fired, similar to a Mauser, and the assembly is quite robust:



A good soak was a good start on this one. I don't know if it was a lunchbox gun, or built from parts after the war, or exactly what happened, as it has a hodge-podge of different numbers on it's bits. The bores are beautiful, it has useful chokes of .007 and .020 on .724 bores. The gun is a bit of a wreck, looks wise, and I don't think I would even call it broken in. It is quite stiff to cycle.

I seldom get this far into a Darne. As a result it takes me two or three tries to jiggle, wiggle, and get the stuff back in the sliding breech in the proper order. It was a three beer job tonight, but, I'm fresh on it, again, and I bet I could do it in 1 or 2, tomorrow.

Best,
Ted

Ted, was the gun "on face"? Gil

Gil,
I've seen some Darnes (and other types of shotguns, truth be told) that were worn enough I didn't consider them safe to fire.

This one has no perceivable wear. The dovetailed face plate is still straw colored, no signs of gases leaking past the primer at all:



But, all is not well. I'll tinker a bit. Looking at a dismantled gun with a bunch of different numbers on the bits sure gives me a sick feeling. I do know it has sat in a closet in White Bear Lake, MN, since WWII with zero use or maintenance.

And the closet had pale green paint on the walls.

Reality is I don't need another gun, but, another project will keep me out of the pool hall.

Best,
Ted

Good save Ted! Nasty people don't deserve such an artifact. I assume its a 12?

Lloyd,
Yes, a 12. If you look at the second photo, you will see where the proof house in St. Etienne marked both barrels as having 18.2mm bores, 9" from the breech. This is a rather snug .724 12 gauge measure.

Nearly every number placed on the bits of this gun does not match the serial number of the gun. This is HIGHLY unusual, but, upon review of my notes and some catalogs, I'm going to speculate that this gun marked the end of a production era, when some distinct changes were made to the design of the R model Darne. A few features on this gun are unusual. The push button safety, separate pins used for main spring and triggers, the ability to access the stock bolt without removing the main spring, and a hole left in the bottom metal to facilitate driving out the metal wedge that is part of the stock attachment. The changes that came early in the 20 century would have saved drilling three holes, notching the pin for the rod for the ejector mechanism, and eliminating two pins. Cost drives the world. Put another way, however, a Darne R model became less modular, and more difficult to dismantle. Few tools are required with this particular design, and none of those tools would be specialized. Perhaps it was discovered that the guns seldom needed to come to bits anyway, and this was a factor in the design changes?

The other possibility, with all the different numbers, on all the different parts, I suppose, is, it is the mother of all lunchbox guns. If you have a theory, mention it. It will be as good as mine, I'm sure.



This is the only number that ends in 55 on the gun. All the numbers seem to be in the same 3200-3300 span, anyway.

The buttstock actually has three different numbers on it, one in pencil, and two stamped in, none of them match the serial number of the barrels, front wood, or the sliding breech. That large circular thing at the front of the wood is the end of the steel rod that travels down the wrist:



I have restored finishes on old guns in the past, and lengthened chambers, forcing cones, or, made other modifications. I'm more sympathetic to leaving old guns alone as I've aged, and lean more toward preservation rather than restoration these days. This little boo-boo will be repaired with epoxy, and rubbed down. I suppose it could have a block of wood cut into the area, and the nut refitted, but, the epoxy will be less labor intensive, and work just as well:



After I assembled it, I brought it to the range and fired it with too long ammunition that was not high pressure, but, not real low, either. This is a Darne after all, it is only Englishmen who need worry about what to feed their guns, or, pigs. Ask any Frenchman.
It throws IC and IM MOD patterns, and was beginning to loosen up a bit after four rounds. Nice.

The chambers do not accept my chamber gauge, not even at the 2 1/2" mark.


Best,
Ted

Good dimensions and weight?

14 1/2" LOP to the front trigger. 27 3/4" tubes with good bores and heavy walls, but, really tight chambers. IC and IM chokes. 1 3/4" DAC, 2 9/16 DAH. Cast for a righty, but, not excessively, perhaps 1/8th at the comb, 1/4 at the toe. Just a guess, but, 6 lbs and small change for weight. The buttplate is grooved horn that the worms haven't discovered.

A lot of Darnes built just after powder T became proofhouse standard (1900) were built to fit the 7 dwarfs. Or, Snow White.

This one, isn't.

Best,
Ted

actually looks like a really nice gun. I enjoy mine, it doesnt fit well but if I am focused its fine.
I think I would prefer the safety on your new toy over the toggle on mine...

Mr. Kotchek,
The button safety isn't very common on Darne R models. The best place to look is on James Wayne imports from the 1970s. My very first Darne was a 29" barreled 20 gauge that featured that safety, which, as a lefty, I grew to not like very much.
I regret selling that gun inspite of that little righthanded button.
I got around to measuring the wall thickness on this old Halifax, and was not surprised. At the same point the Proofhouse measured 18.2mm, the wall thickness on this gun is .115 and .118, respectively. I quit right there. No point in going further, or worrying about it. I won't hesitate to use the old Winchester low noise, low recoil loads even if they are 2 3/4" length, until I lay in some RSTs in the correct length. Most of the Darne guns I own have similar wall thickness dimensions. Something I truly love about a Darne is the typical way the barrels are overbuilt for the task at hand, while still having a lightweight (most of the time) and well balanced gun. I think this gun avoided European pitted bore syndrome through lack of use. Many, haven't. For a 100+ year old French gun (my best guess is construction between 1910 and 1915, or so) that came back as a war trophy, the condition is better than good, I guess.
I will drag it along for the Ruffed Grouse fun shoot tomorrow, and run another round through it, if I have time. As of now, I am going to call it ready for service.



Best,
Ted

When I took possession of the Halifax, it was still equipped with this sling:



I've seen the remains of a few of these, over the years. This one is probably in the best shape of those, but, it is in poor enough condition to be completely un-usable, it is leather that is 100 years or so old, after all. If it didn't come with the gun, it came fairly soon after, but, I'd bet it was on the gun right from day one. It does give one an idea of what the typical sling looked like on lower grade French hunting implements, circa early 1900s, and that makes it worth noting. While light in weight, the strap is narrow enough to be just this side of useless. No adjustability is possible, the brass rivets insert through the slit, and line up in the two holes in the ends of the leather. It is fairly quickly removed from the gun, probably why most guns are missing them.
In all the years I have been playing with these French Darne guns, I have never owned the exact combination of features in one that I would prefer. I'd really like a 76mm chamber, 29" barrel 20, with a straight stock, in the "Galwi" style, (perch belly) with IC and Mod chokes, flag safety, swamped rib, checkered rosewood buttplate (ebony will do if rosewood isn't allowed anymore) bretelle Darne, and, since I'm dreaming a bit, R15 rosace engraving by either Miss. Ariel Recrux, or Mr. Guy Ripamonte. Or, Mr. Petiot, who I met at the technical school in St. Etienne when he had retired, to teach engraving. Since he was the master, I'd like the barrels and taper chokes to have been cut by Mr. Paul Bruchet, RIP.
Guess I'll go shoot this one. Sadly, probably as close as I'll get, from where I am today.


Best,
Ted