May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online Now
7 members (KY Jon, PatG, obsessed-with-doubles, LGF, bbman3, 1 invisible), 167 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,543
Posts546,082
Members14,420
Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
pooch #482396 06/08/17 12:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 828
Likes: 37
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 828
Likes: 37
Get a box of 2.5" shells from rst and check the barrels for any dents, dings or bulges. Make sure they enter and exit the gun as they should and shoot it. Make sure the barrel or barrels are tight on the receiver and not off face

pooch #483120 06/17/17 07:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,430
Likes: 315
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,430
Likes: 315
Late to the party.

P. Webley & Son began using Siemens steel barrels about 1880 and reported excellent results.

John Henry Walsh, The Modern Sportsman's Gun and Rifle: Including Game and Wildfowl Guns, Sporting and Match Rifles, and Revolvers, Volume 1, 1882
“Siemen’s Steel for Gun Barrels”
http://books.google.com/books?id=OLwUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA445&vq
A 13 bore Siemens barrel did not bulge until 19 1/4 Dram Black Powder with a 1 1/4 oz. ball. Siemens then reported a tensile strength of 55,000 - 60,000; other sources list 62,700 psi.

The average tensile strength for Crolle Damascus is 54,700 psi.

New fangled steel barrels were developed rapidly thereafter. Lot of infro here, including the 1891 Birmingham Proof House Trial report
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnRLZgcuHfx7uFOHvHCUGnGFiLiset-DTTEK8OtPYVA/edit

The British 12 bore service loads of that era for 2 1/2" and 2 5/8" chambers were:
Nitro - 1 1/8 oz. with 42 grain Bulk Smokeless = 3 Dr. Eq. (1200 fps) at 5330 - 6110 psi
Nitro - 1 1/4 oz. with 45 grain = 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. (1220 fps): 6360 - 8620 psi

BTW: minimal wall thickness measurements mean little unless we know where that number was obtained, and wall thickness from the end of the chamber to about 18" is of much greater importance, as are our eyes and fingers. OD-ID doesn't work because of barrel eccentricity.




pooch #483126 06/17/17 08:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531
Likes: 18
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531
Likes: 18
William Powell & Son began using steel barrels in 1867.

pooch #483127 06/17/17 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,430
Likes: 315
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,430
Likes: 315
William Siemens established the “Sample Steelworks” to develop the Siemens-Martin “Open Hearth” process in 1865, and his steel was in general industrial use 1870 - 1875.
Siemens is likely the steel used for the Wm. Powell "Punched Steel" barrels.
c. 1868 advertisement



"Metallurgy of Steel", 1905
http://books.google.com/books?id=RaF9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA512&lpg
As early as 1866, Messrs Deakin & Johnson, of Bilston, were making weldless rifle barrels from a steel block about 1 inches diameter and 8 inches long, by punching a hole from each end under a steam hammer, and then rolling the blank presumably in the same way as weldless tubes are now rolled in the process of "rolling off".

"Cold rolling" decarbonized and carbon steels increases tensile strength

Drew Hause #483128 06/17/17 08:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709
pooch Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709
Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
Late to the party.

P. Webley & Son began using Siemens steel barrels about 1880 and reported excellent results.

John Henry Walsh, The Modern Sportsman's Gun and Rifle: Including Game and Wildfowl Guns, Sporting and Match Rifles, and Revolvers, Volume 1, 1882
“Siemen’s Steel for Gun Barrels”
http://books.google.com/books?id=OLwUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA445&vq
A 13 bore Siemens barrel did not bulge until 19 1/4 Dram Black Powder with a 1 1/4 oz. ball. Siemens then reported a tensile strength of 55,000 - 60,000; other sources list 62,700 psi.

The average tensile strength for Crolle Damascus is 54,700 psi.

New fangled steel barrels were developed rapidly thereafter. Lot of infro here, including the 1891 Birmingham Proof House Trial report
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnRLZgcuHfx7uFOHvHCUGnGFiLiset-DTTEK8OtPYVA/edit

The British 12 bore service loads of that era for 2 1/2" and 2 5/8" chambers were:
Nitro - 1 1/8 oz. with 42 grain Bulk Smokeless = 3 Dr. Eq. (1200 fps) at 5330 - 6110 psi
Nitro - 1 1/4 oz. with 45 grain = 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. (1220 fps): 6360 - 8620 psi

BTW: minimal wall thickness measurements mean little unless we know where that number was obtained, and wall thickness from the end of the chamber to about 18" is of much greater importance, as are our eyes and fingers. OD-ID doesn't work because of barrel eccentricity.





Good stuff thanks. I thought Whitworth fluid steel barrels were the first fluid steel barrels to be used on English guns. My OD/ID agreed with a barrel wall thickness gauge. Neither type gauge can measure the barrels along the barrel mating plain.

pooch #483129 06/17/17 08:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,430
Likes: 315
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,430
Likes: 315
Sir Joseph Whitworth's adaptation of Bessemer's principle of hydraulic pressure casting was patented in 1874. The primary advantage in the “fluid compression” process was uniformity, and the absence of porosity and voids.

The Mechanical and Other Properties of Iron and Steel in Connection with Their Chemical Composition, 1891, reported Whitworth “Gun Steel” as .30 - .42% carbon and .24 - .31% manganese.
For comparison, Vickers was .24 - .27% carbon and .22% manganese; Krupp .46 - .52% carbon and .07 - .13% manganese.
https://books.google.com/books?id=-c8xAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA196&dq

Wm. Powell & Son used Whitworth for barrels in 1875. The first Purdey Pair Nos. 10614 & 10615 were delivered January 1, 1880 with the “New Whitworth Fluid Pressed Steel”. Lefever Arms Co. was the first U.S. maker to supply Whitworth steel for their Optimus in 1887. Parker Bros. used Whitworth for the first AAH Pigeon Gun in 1894 SN 79964 delivered to Capt. Du Bray. Hunter Arms first offered Whitworth on the Monogram, A2, and A3 in 1895.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.076s Queries: 26 (0.055s) Memory: 0.8337 MB (Peak: 1.9025 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-05-19 22:44:19 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS