doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com AYA or Arrieta

Garbi's are nice but overpriced in the US, IMHO. They start at $14,600 usd. Of course, F. Rizzini sidelocks start at 96,000 Euros which makes the Garbis look like a bargain. I assume it is much easier to find used SxS shotguns in Great Britain than here in the states. Is this true?
Regards,
Jeff

I paid about that for mine - only one set barrels, but double trigger and fitted (cast, bend and shorten a bit). I think that very good value, particularly as the new price at present is very steep.
I don't know where the engraving was done, I had always assumed Spain, but I have heard that present 'delux' models are UK finished. My No 1 engraving is good, but not quite in the English best league. The AyA Senior/Premiere (from 1980) I have (which was engraved in Spain) is much better engraving and as good as any English best 'normal rose and scroll' pattern I have seen. But that (when it was made) was MUCH more expensive than a No 1, which I think is why you see so few.

I haven't owned an Arrieta, but have seen some nice examples and have heard good reports. I believe some of the Powell Heritage models were Arrieta based.

I've owned one Arrieta 557 and two AYAs, a No 51 and a No 4 Deluxe. They were all bought used. No mechanical problems with any, but both AYAs' barrels didn't shoot to the same point of impact. I owned the No 4 first and couldn't understand why I kept missing easy straightaway shots with the right barrel (It was a true left hand gun. The left barrel was more open.) After I patterned it, I discovered that the right barrel shot 8" to the right at 20 yds, and more apart at longer ranges. I disposed of it. About 10 years later I bought the No 51 and discovered that it was a right hand gun with left hand dimensions. It shot about the same amount apart as the No 4. I don't know if the barrel regulation was by design, but I couldn't shoot either gun because of that.

I must be very fortunate because I've never had a double do this. I've owned a good selection of American, British, and Spanish guns and never had this problem. I hear about it with some frequency in my work, and usually about a Spanish or a French gun. Is that partly due to the DIARM debacle from the late 70's? The sources of these stories aren't necessarily suspect, but they are almost always second hand.

John, you are lucky to have the Senior model as only about 40 were made. They stopped making them as they were too expensive to produce. At the time they were several times more expensive than a Number 1 (current price for a new number 1 is around �11,500). I have a friend who had a pair of Seniors in perfect condition which he sold for �14,000. Heaven knows what they would have cost new. A bargain but out of my league. I do like AyA's and have four. Never owned an Arrieta but would snap one up if I found one I liked at the right price. Lagopus.....

The AyA Senior is a murky subject, and part of the larger (and still more murky) subject of Spanish made guns with Beesley/Purdey self-opening actions and Purdey locks.

The King brothers do indeed report that they were told by AyA that Aya had made only about 40 Senior model shotguns. I have some reservations about that number, as the number of observed guns seems high for a total population of only 40.

Ignacio Ugartechea made some number of Beesley/Purdey self-opening actions and Purdey locks guns, and catalog those as Model 1040. I have photos of four of these, one of which has a proof year of 1950. The AyA Senior is visually identical in appearance to the Ugartechea model 1040. Franco had a set of three, and two of the four I know of are a numbered pair that showed up in a Spanish gunsmith's shop. It is reported that Ugartechea was required to destroy some as the result of a suit by Purdey.

Victor Sarasqueta also produced Beesley/Purdey self-opening actions and Purdey locks guns. I have photos of two such guns, one has the proof year of 1930. The Ugartechea model 1040 is identical in appearance to the VS guns.

Bottom line is we know at least three Spanish gun makers produced Beesley/Purdey self-openers, with the earliest known (to me) gun being from 1930 and the most recent from 1986.

Total number guns produced, all makers, all years, is unknown. Given that there is a known span of at least 56 years during which they were made, the total number may not be as small as thought. But it's unlikely we will ever know with any certainty.

Yes Victor Sarasqueta made a model 211 shotgun with beesley locks but with the "Bury" type action. For the quality and innovation of this great and very good Spanish manufacturer, there is doubt if ever, at the beginning of the century, he built a copy of Purdey ... there is no evidence, just suspicion.

From this model other shotguns are not known, this could have been the prototype that made but then abandoned - it's the 40's!

Victor Sarasqueta model 211 - I hope the photos help:













Some other Spanish manufacturers did some more shotguns with Beesley's system and integral copies of Purdey, but in small quantities: AyA states that some 40 shotguns and the Ugartechea that we recently learned that only manufactured about 25 (published brand letter with that information) .




Over the years, the idea that Purdey had judicially executed Ugartechea was fed, and therefore abandoned the production of this excellent shotgun, which owes nothing to the real Purdey.

In a recent conversation with Mr. Ignacio Ugartechea, he denied the existence of this pressure from Purdey and reported that he abandoned the production of this shotgun because of the complications and requirements that it incorporates, since this system is very sensitive, namely the automatic extractors and their adjustment. There would have to be master builders dedicated to this problem.

Such a situation must have happened with so many other manufacturers who made some shotgun copies of Purdey but later abandoned it:

I know several, from British, Belgian, Russian, German and of course Spanish. I have not yet found any French and Italian.

I publish photos of the Ugartechea model 1040 (a pair) and the AyA Senior model (there is the 57 model in the older version):

Ugartechea model 1040









[img]https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/19/64/81/33/iu_0410.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/19/64/81/33/iu_0510.jpg[/img]



AyA model S�nior

[img]https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/19/64/81/33/aya_0010.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/19/64/81/33/aya_0210.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/19/64/81/33/aya_0410.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/19/64/81/33/aya_0710.jpg[/img]

Can you post and publish the photos of these two Victor Sarasqueta with Beesley locks and Purdey or Bury action?

Thank you very much

I have a 20 bore in "NEW" condition I am wanting to sell. It's the Ligera Model. 100% case color,30" barrels, Briley choked, 15" LOP with a fantastic upgrdaed wood. Leather pad.

What is the make and model?