doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Stripping a forend with a bone tip

I have always used acetone followed by alcohol to strip stocks and forends. It works really well. However this time I have a forend with a bone tip and I am concerned with damaging the bone tip if I submerse it in these solvents. I testied a small spot on the back of the trigger guard and saw no issue after a short time. Do any of you have experience with soaking bone in either of these chemicals?

I recently refinished an old stock that was virtually black from age. The forend has a horn insert. This stock is 130 years old and the horn inlay was attached with hide glue. it came off easily enough with warm water and a little heat. I felt much better about removing the old finish with the horn removed.

David is right, the horn tip should have been fixed with animal glue. I have soaked these in solvent and they have stayed put but since they are usually easily removed using nothing but patience and warm water, it may be sensible to remove the tip and re-fix afterwards. No need to use animal glue then, epoxy works much better.
The only snag is if someone has re-fixed the tip with PVA (white glue). That could give you a headache! It MIGHT dissolve in the solvent, no way of telling until you try.

refinishing 130 year old wood with patina is a sin...

A sin you have never been involved in?

And what is torching a 100 year old action with acetylene/oxygen?

You hypocrite.

SRH

more nonsense...

just a reminder, i do no gun work of any kind...

nor do i kill song birds...

does anyone here wish to discuss why it is not a good idea to remove the patina from 130 year old wood?

It is an English gun and if it had been used for these past decades, it would have been regularly updated by the maker. But instead it spent a very long time in someone's closet just getting old. The finish on this stock can hardly be called patina. My choice was 1) restock the gun with a nice blank of English walnut that I have waiting around for a project, or 2) refinish the existing stock and see what might be under the "patina." In any case this gun will be a shooter for me and no matter what I do the gun will never be worth what I'll wind up in it. I don't buy guns that I expect to flip. I buy things I want to keep forever. I committed no sin by refinishing this stock. You, however, should take the log out of your own eye, to use Biblical analogies, before accusing anyone of committing a gun sin. The refinished damascus barrels look really beautiful, by the way. The gun has never been anywhere near an acetylene torch though. Now back to the original topic.

well david, my point is that antique wood finishes are worth preserving, especially if they are 130 years old...obviously, you think otherwise...

Ed: did you ask your master gunsmith to refinish the buttstock and torch the action on this "antique" NID? Or not "antique" enough?



Please stop

well drew, this looks like a gun that might have passed thru my hands many years ago...in any event, an ithaca nid is certainly not an antique by any definition, but yours...

Or don't stop. What would your "antique" cut off be? How about this Parker you offered for sale?



A member of the Parker forum states Ed Lander has extended the chambers of 10 2 frame VH and Trojan Parkers. Do you know where those guns can be found? Your opinion as to if that is an appropriate "upgrade"?
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20919&page=3

Patina on antique furniture is one thing but English guns of quality were often returned to their makers to have their wear on finish renewed so there would never be any gun patina. Perhaps it might be different on a muzzle loader but doubles are expected to be kept in good repair with a nice looking finish protecting them for future use.

I would strip and refinish the original wood. I expect a little heat will remove the tip easily. From there refinishing can be a nice way to spend a few hours a night getting it exactly to your likening. And you are smart enough not to sand a stock to death. Done properly a good finish adds beauty and value to a nice gun.

drew: whatever your problem is, i fail to see how it involves me...or the topic of this thread...

KY: agreed, original antique wood finishes should be preserved...

Finding a Vintage gun with an original, antique wood finish in a high enough condition that it warrants preservation, is like finding the same gun to have original, high condition Case Colors. The examples are few and far between...

Regards
Ken

The topic is refinishing a vintage gun, and this masterpiece by your "master gunsmith", and sold by you, is the problem Ed.



If you would please stop posting purposefully provocative and transparently self-promotional comments and inquiries, which are insulting to our intelligence, I would be most happy to stop posting images, of which their are an abundance.

drew: are you suggesting that if i advertise a gun for sale elsewhere, and that gun does not meet your standard of cosmetic acceptability, then i am some how at fault for offering it for sale?

and please do stop insulting us by trashing this thread with your off topic posts...if you wish to discuss your issue further, then lets take it private or perhaps you would like to start another thread?

No, ed. You have the right to offer your crap anywhere it is legal. But, don't expect your drivel to be accepted here. You underestimate the knowledge of the base here, badly.

Why don't you just go away? Far away, hypocrite.

SRH

drivel? since when is advocating for the preservation of antique wood finishes considered drivel?

Your drivel is defending your "master gunsmith" Ed Landers' trashing of S X S actions with "his" torch.

SRH

and your drivel is perpetuating this torch myth...

myth noun: plural noun: myths

1. a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

synonyms: folk tale, folk story, legend, tale, story, fable, saga, mythos, lore, folklore, mythology
"ancient Greek myths"

2. a widely held but false belief or idea.

I think the torching would be considered history, not mythology

Thanks for ruining another thread, Ed. Your passive-aggressive BS has grown tiresome to rest of us. Please go away.

Gr:tis not i who trashed this thread by going off topic with wacky posts that have nothing to do with preserving antique wood finishes...

and if you find some posts here tiresome, as i sometimes do, then just ignore them...as i sometimes do... with a yawn...

Ed: we all get that you post for your own malicious entertainment, but to review:
1. Tom specifically asked about the risk of damage to a horn tip while refinishing a stock.
2. He did not ask for our/your opinion about refinishing stocks.
3. YOU said "refinishing 130 year old wood with patina is a sin"

How did you direct your master gunsmith to refinish this stock? It was clearly stripped of the original finish. Was it his idea to pound the doll's head to tighten the action?



Please stop and I will most thankfully do the same.

drew: your post above is another fantasy of your own creation...mostly negative assumptions and accusations, with no foundation in truth or reality...perhaps it is you who should stop...besides this is getting tiresome...

come on Ed, that was pitiful. Projection much?
You did not have that gun for sale?
Just stop and we can both take a nap

It is a crime to knowingly buy stolen merchandise for either personal use or for resale.
"IF" it is a Sin to refinish a 130 year old stock then it is also a sin to knowingly but the same. This simply gives encouragement to the "Sinner". PERIOD

Actually that peened "Doll's Head" in the last picture is not a Doll's Head at all but a simple rib extension. It is of uniform thickness throughout its length (At least it was prior to peening) & does not have a "Head". Still a crime though.

piper, you too seem to have embraced a fantasy here...how do you know the rib extension has been peened?

and drew, what has really become pitiful here is your effort to create reality out of fantasy...

you post images here of unknown origin, then make unsubstantiated negative assumptions and accusations and then demand that i explain and confirm your fantasies...

Well obviously something has been done to it unless it was totally shabbily built. Look at the gap where the extension fits into the cut in the frame. Of course I suppose someone could have taken a big coarse file to it & flattened the rear, But WHY. Filing removes metal & would make the fit looser, peening expands metal to give it a closer fit. Also if you look closely at the picture you can see the expanded metal on the top of the extension, normal for peening, abnormal for filing or grinding. I did put in over 35 years as a machinist, I can generally see the difference in peening & metal removal even from a picture, if I could look at it up close it would of course remove all doubt.
What do you see that says it "WAS NOT PEENED???"
Just present facts, don't try to snowball me, I've been going down the tracks for a long time, seen a lot of water run over the dam & seen a lot of Uncouth Fixings.

piper: i see no evidence of peening or not peening...that is my point...none of us knows much about this gun...to claim otherwise is fantasy...

the facts are, i see what is perhaps an early parker trojan with rib extension...and it appears to be a well worn old gun with little external finish remaining...what do you see?

Ed, anyone who cares to take the time to read your old posts knows that you have long been a proponent of torch coloring guns.

I believe the only "myth" part is where you blamed it all on "Master Gunsmith Old Ed Lander". It would appear that a disproportionate number of guns sold by you have been "enhanced" by dubious techniques such as torch coloring, peening, top levers bent so that they appear to be right of center, etc. How do you explain all that?

And one thing that definitely is NOT a myth is that you, Ed Good, have repeatedly voiced your support for anti-2nd Amendment politicians, and gun bans and restrictions on certain classes of firearms:

Post # 400299










Would you care to take this discussion private Ed? Too bad! I'd rather do it right here in the open so everyone knows you are an anti-gunner... which is my opinion of you based upon your very own words.

Ed;
I also see what appears to be a Parker Trojan with rib extension. I also see a big gap at the rear of that extension. As the shoulders of the rib at the front of the extension are tight against the frame the rear of the extension DID NOT wear in ordinary opening & closing of the gun. In my 79 years upon this earth I have never seen a Parker, even a Trojan, with that sloppy a fit. The metal thus had to go somewhere. In the pictures YES I definitely see signs of what appear to be peening. I have never to my knowledge seen this gun or know anything at all about it other than the picture. I stated my reasons for this which anyone who knows guns or even metal could understand.
"IF" you have actual, factual evidence that gun was not peened then PLEASE do state them, but this HOGWASH RUN AROUND just Don't CUT IT. All I'm going to say unless you have some real facts to produce, then I am willing to listen.
All I am doing is committing on the picture, not taking sides For or Agin anyone, just calling the picture as I see it, & I feel I am qualified to comment.
Take it for whatever its worth.

well, please do call it as you see it. that is fair...as for who worked on this gun, and what was done to it, i have no knowledge nor recollection...over the years, i have sold some well worn parker trojans...this could very well be one of them...

but, what is not fair is to do what drew does...insinuate that i or any other specific person worked on this gun, without any factual knowledge.

and with regard to parker trojans...as i recall the rib extension was an early feature that was found to be of no value and hence done away with around 1918...as such, the condition of the rib extension has no bearing on the tightness nor function of the gun...so why the big deal about the rib extension?

Miller: Ed refuses to acknowledge that he offered that gun for sale, and has now implied that I lifted the image and have falsely attributed the gun/image to him. It is my recollection that there was a discussion about that gun on the PGCA Forum, and will try an 'Ed Good' search to find it.

drew, as stated above...this could very well be one of them...

and so what if it is?

this is really getting tiresome...

next thing ya know keet da troll will surface...

Ed, it is simply dishonest of you to act as if you don't know that you sold this gun. The pictures of this same Trojan have been posted here many times to remind everyone of the tarted up crap you sell. There have been many other similar pictures of other crap you sold... guns with grotesque acetylene torch color burned metal actions... guns with bent top levers which made it appear at first glance that the top lever was right of center... guns that were photographed slightly opened so that the top lever was to the right... etc., etc.

So where did Drew insinuate that you or any other person worked on the crap guns you frequently sell? It was you who told us that Master Gunsmith Old Ed Lander does a lot of your work. Why is it not fair for Drew or anyone else to repeat what you yourself has said repeatedly over the years? Do you think we all have short memories?

Here's a link to an old thread that contains numerous other links to other threads documenting the very things you'd like us all to forget. Once a Troll... Always a Troll, right Ed?

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=348207&page=1

always a troll, right keet?

Ed, it is simply dishonest of you to act as if you don't know that you sold this gun. The pictures of this same Trojan have been posted here many times to remind everyone of the tarted up crap you sell. There have been many other similar pictures of other crap you sold... guns with grotesque acetylene torch color burned metal actions... guns with bent top levers which made it appear at first glance that the top lever was right of center... guns that were photographed slightly opened so that the top lever was to the right... etc., etc.

So where did Drew insinuate that you or any other person worked on the crap guns you frequently sell? It was you who told us that Master Gunsmith Old Ed Lander does a lot of your work. Why is it not fair for Drew or anyone else to repeat what you yourself has said repeatedly over the years? Do you think we all have short memories?

Here's a link to an old thread that contains numerous other links to other threads documenting the very things you'd like us all to forget. Once a Troll... Always a Troll. Yes you are Ed.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=348207&page=1

Hey Ed, remember when I took a break from this place for several months after my Dad died? Remember how you said that you missed me?

Here's your post # 380744 from 10/17/14 Ed:



Ed, it isn't trolling to remind everyone that you are an anti-2nd Amendment troll by quoting you in your own words.

It is however trolling to post crap like this on a firearms related forum:





Shall we also discuss your repeated posts where you said that the extreme anti-gun ex NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg would be a good candidate for President? Then you can tell us that wasn't trolling either.

sure keet, troll along...nobody cares but you...

You didn't answer my questions Ed.

Say, what are the business hours for your gun shop? As a licensed FFL holder, you do have a shop and regular business hours as required by law, don't you?

nobody cares but you...

You keep responding Ed. Apparently, you must care. Why do your anti-gun words bother you so much? Is it because you'd like your customers to think that you actually support their rights to own and use firearms?

Wrong, again.

SRH

keet: for the most part i dont care what you post here...

Ed do you care to post your home address? I suspect there are several folks who would welcome the chance to meet with you.

durgs: ah may be crazy...but ah aint dat crazy...

You're not crazy Ed. Crazy is just soooo politically incorrect.

Profound mental illness would be a better description of your behavior, in my opinion.

Are you forgetting that your address in Francistown, N.H, has been posted here a couple times in the past? I won't post it, but it is listed on the BATFE Public Information FFL List, and anyone can Google it. I was merely interested whether you are complying with the law yet by having regular business hours, which was a question on your application for the FFL?

These quotes are from our friend Dave K., from the old Misfires thread "WHERE IS ED GOOD'S GUN SHOP?" They questioned whether your one bedroom house met the requirements for a legal Firearms Business.

keet: sometimes you represent yourself here as a mean and vindictive individual who genuinely wishes me harm...