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Forums10
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Most Online1,258 Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103 |
Brent, couple questions/comments not related to the possible bend in the barrels:
1. Are you sure your first SKB 20ga has 24" barrels? If so, they've been cut. The Ithaca SKB 20's choked IC/M came with 25" barrels.
2. If the stock is too low, the problem isn't that you'd be looking down on the barrels. Rather, it'd be the opposite (unless you raise your head and don't cheek the stock): You wouldn't be able to see the barrels. If your cheek is firmly on the stock and you're seeing too much barrel, it's because the stock is too high. Not enough drop. On quite a few older American doubles, the stocks have so much drop that you won't see any barrel at all unless you shoot with your head up/off the stock.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 268
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 268 |
A few years back, before the advent of adjustable combs; it was a common practice among some (not all) trap shooters to bend the barrels up. I watched John Storm do it. I watched Bueford Bailey do it. They used several methods, including putting the gun's barrels between a semi trucks dual tires and bending them up. John Storm had a more sophisticated system, using a vice device he kept with him. So, yes, it has been done. Sam Ogle, Lincoln, Ne.
Sam Ogle
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,670 Likes: 372 |
Larry, The first SKB is probably 25". That sounds oddly familiar now that I think about it. But they are the "short" barrels rather than the long barrels that are on the M/F version that is the second SKB.
My problem is that I do not cheek the stock consistently where it needs to be. I often shoot with my head to high. That said, that first SKB wouldn't hit anything no matter how carefully I hoisted the gun. That gun certainly needs to be patterned (or better, sold). Anyway, my shooting form is not good and somehow this new gun is playing into it in a good way.
I wish it was a nicer gun but maybe I can make it that way. I know they can be fitted for double triggers, and that would help. New wood, a little engraving, and maybe it will be a functional and nice, if not elegant, gun.
_________ BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103 |
Brent, it will be 25" if it's factory and hasn't been cut.
If your short barreled gun is also a Model 100, they have something of a cult following with grouse and woodcock hunters. Short barrels, light, relatively open chokes. But they are hard guns to shoot well at targets, because they are both short and light. Either put a beavertail forend on those guns (like the 200's or the 280's) to add a bit more weight forward, or make the barrels longer, like 28". Either will make for a better target gun. But the problem with the long barrels is that they're choked tighter, which means they aren't such a great choice for skeet. Too bad Ithaca didn't offer those 28" barreled Model 100's with more open chokes.
Try pre-mounting that short barreled SKB and shooting low house birds from station 7 on the skeet field. That will likely tell you if the gun isn't shooting where you aim it. If you're not hitting there, then a pattern board will tell you which way you're off, and how far. Or rather the gun's off, if you're pre-mounting.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1129
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1129 |
So, now we're back to where we began, a pattern board.
Why make it so hard? Go to a pattern board/grease plate right off the bat and see where the gun is shooting ......... instead of guessing by shooting at the water, and plowed dirt.
"I don't keep a grease plate in my backyard for this purpose like all of you, but I'll set up some butcher paper on a frame and see what happens."
Don't know if that was some kind of a "poke" or not, but you don't have to have one in your "backyard" to have access to one. And, the paper works just as good, just a whole lot slower.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Brent, it will be 25" if it's factory and hasn't been cut. Just measured it. 25" it is. It seems to be exactly the same as the new gun, just shorter. Both are model 100s. When I bring it up, they are both about the same. Both feel slightly short to me, but in any event, they are not different in anyway I can discern except barrel length, curvature, and the ugly orange fiber optic bead on the 28" version. I assume that is screwed or glued on. It has to go. The short one has a simple silver bead. If your short barreled gun is also a Model 100, they have something of a cult following with grouse and woodcock hunters. Short barrels, light, relatively open chokes. But they are hard guns to shoot well at targets, because they are both short and light. Either put a beavertail forend on those guns (like the 200's or the 280's) to add a bit more weight forward, or make the barrels longer, like 28". Either will make for a better target gun. But the problem with the long barrels is that they're choked tighter, which means they aren't such a great choice for skeet. Too bad Ithaca didn't offer those 28" barreled Model 100's with more open chokes. I'm happy with the tighter chokes. I will use it on pheasants more than anything and mixed birds in Nebraska this fall. I don't shoot targets seriously or even semiseriously. But I will probably shoot them weekly this year just because a friend of mine wants to shoot and I enjoy it. But I don't get serious about shotgunning targets other than I try hard. Rifles are different that way... Try pre-mounting that short barreled SKB and shooting low house birds from station 7 on the skeet field. That will likely tell you if the gun isn't shooting where you aim it. If you're not hitting there, then a pattern board will tell you which way you're off, and how far. Or rather the gun's off, if you're pre-mounting. Premounting or not, I can't hit with it. It is abysmal. Or I am abysmal when using it. With my other doubles I am an average shooter I suppose. But nothing makes me hit with that short gun. I have tried lacing pads on it to make it longer and that was no help either.
_________ BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,670 Likes: 372 |
So, now we're back to where we began, a pattern board.
Why make it so hard? Go to a pattern board/grease plate right off the bat and see where the gun is shooting ......... instead of guessing by shooting at the water, and plowed dirt. Cuz right off the bat, I don't have access to one. I made the original post immediately after coming home with a gun that really surprised the heck out of me and I was just wanting to share my experience and see what others might have to say about upward bent barrels that seem to shoot so well, especially given my predilection towards not fully mounting the gun when I shoot sometimes. I am still astounded that a gun with barrels bent like this shoots anywhere close to well. I've never heard oof such things and it seems that few to none here have seen this done in a significant degree. It certainly is new to me. "I don't keep a grease plate in my backyard for this purpose like all of you, but I'll set up some butcher paper on a frame and see what happens."
Don't know if that was some kind of a "poke" or not, but you don't have to have one in your "backyard" to have access to one. And, the paper works just as good, just a whole lot slower.
SRH Don't read too much into it. I can shoot on my property, but I don't have this set up at moments notice. The local range has a pattern board, but it is not accessible when the middle trap house is in use - which is most of the time, including last Wednesday. I'll get it done, and I'll let you know what I find. Brent
_________ BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103 |
Brent, odd that your 25" Ithaca SKB is missing the RayBar sight. Came on all of the guns imported by Ithaca. Might be someone (like you) didn't like it. But maybe it'd shoot straighter if it were still there. Seriously, I'd sell that gun you can't shoot, if I were you--unless you determine it shoots so far off that you'd be cheating the buyer. Considering the gun seems to be that far off for you, you might want to consider shooting from a rest (a bag of shot or something on a portable table), like you'd zero in a rifle. If it's off that way, you know it's REALLY off, and the problem is the gun and not you and how you're shooting it.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 125
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 125 |
Stan is very right that the way to understand any gun is to put in the work with a pattern board. You will fall right into his camp if you are going to use it for long range work. Bent barrels can only function well at specific limit of range.
I come from a different background and knew a lot of close range shooters, who only looked at the way the target broke and refused to pattern, for fear of losing confidence in the gun. Yes, it sounds silly. But I met a guy who won championships with a gun, patterned it, saw holes like a sieve, and ended up selling the gun!
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 125
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 125 |
L. Brown is exactly right that a sight of larger or smaller size will change your point of aim. Your eye only focuses on the TOP of the bead.
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