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#477994 - 04/16/17 01:48 PM Re: Removing Disc set striker plugs from breech face [Re: salopian]
salopian Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 1513
Loc: Midlands,England,Great Britain...
Ted,
I would be interested to know how the pins come to rest in three sets of holes ?
Perhaps an end on view or the tool disassembled would shed further light on the subject . I understand Tom Menck is no longer trading, is that correct?

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#478014 - 04/16/17 09:08 PM Re: Removing Disc set striker plugs from breech face [Re: Brittany Man]
Ted Schefelbein Online   content
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 5796
Loc: mpls, mn.
Originally Posted By: Brittany Man
Ted,

My post along with some of the other posts give the OP a little support in that he is not alone on having difficulty removing striker discs.


And, that, along with 50 cents, will get him a cup of coffee, exactly where?


Salopian,
Cole's tool has a continuation of sorts, past the relieved area behind the business end where the pins fit in-he drilled it far enough for the pins to drop into a second hole, in addition to the hole they are inserted into.
You can be sure the pins haven't skewed one way or the other in use by simply looking they are bottomed on the second hole. I suppose he could have simply made the holes full length, and not cut the relief just behind the business end, but, that wouldn't have been as elegant.
I usually put a small rare earth magnet on the shank, near the pins, to keep them in the tool. It does not look elegant, but, it keeps the pins from falling out of the tool. This is a view of the correct tool, for this application, in use. Having the correct tool can't be stressed enough:





If I had a seized disc, I'd likely opt for the same treatment I use on other stuck fasteners, complete disassembly and a soak in a 50/50 mix of diesel fuel and automatic transmission fluid. In severe cases, I have rigged a double boiler to warm the concoction, but, the flash point is low, and it is a bit dangerous, something best done outdoors with plenty of ventilation. I've always let the seized fastener sit immersed for at least a week before the dreaded heating process begins, and, have usually been rewarded with parts that break free after the week. A few times I have warmed the mixture, and used a nitrogen spray on the seized part after removing it, to break the parts free. But, just the soak does wonders. I've left stuff sit for a month a few times.

I've dealt with many stuck fasteners in my shop, but, they are usually in an automotive capacity, not firearms. You are trying to save an unavailable part, and, time is your friend in this case. The first rule, old guns and old cars, is do no harm.

If you are unconcerned about the finish, you have the option of electrolysis, filling a plastic pickle barrel with wash soda, or, lye, water, and hanging an electrode in the solution (I use a chunk of stainless steel) along with your stuck part, and using a 12 volt battery charger to drive the rust off the part, and onto the electrode. You can google the process, it is brutal, but, the part will be rust free, unstuck, and clean when it is over, usually a day or three. Never, ever needed to use it on gun parts. I start with better guns than that.

If you guys are using the quill of a Bridgeport verticle mill to apply pressure, you are abusing the machine, and not getting anywhere near the force you could with the right machine. A Bridgeport is a good mill, but, the quill is light duty, and not suited for that use. Better, are the Gorton verticle mills, and the monster, the English built Balding Beaver. I have access to all three, and a very good machinist passed that tip along to me. This falls under the use the right tool heading.

Lastly, all you gents that got a stuck disc free, did you do this to make it easy for the next guy?



I am no more than a tinkerer on guns, perhaps an advanced tinkerer on Darne guns, but, I have some pride and always make the job easier for the next guy with the tools, on either a gun or a car. A tiny tadpole shaped spot of this ends any trouble with a stuck disc for more time than we will be alive.

Salopian, I hope I described the tool well enough for you to produce one, if you need a better picture PM me. I don't know the status of the other tool mentioned, but, I imagine ebay could be your friend if you need one.

Best,
Ted

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#478018 - 04/16/17 09:46 PM Re: Removing Disc set striker plugs from breech face [Re: salopian]
Brittany Man Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 389
Loc: Midwest
Salopian,

As I'm sure you have done already, a Google search shows T. W. Menck's Ralston, Nebraska shop permanently closed.

I have one of his 2- Bit adjustable firing pin bushing tools as he calls them & it works well & is made to use a 1/2" socket. His instructions suggest using an impact driver but I've not found that necessary (yet).

He has a good drawing of his tool in his instructions & failing your locating one somewhere it does not look like it would be too difficult for someone with a lathe to make one.

I'm not good at posting photos but if you want to PM me with your E-Mail address I'll scan the instructions & send them to you.

Nothing wrong with the Cole design either but on a gun that has been fired much you will want something more than a slick handle to provide some torque.

Those striker disc tools that have a handle that looks like a chamber brush handle are most useful as case accessories but I imagine you already know this.

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#478088 - 04/17/17 09:43 PM Re: Removing Disc set striker plugs from breech face [Re: salopian]
Tim Wolf Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 288
Loc: MI
Picture from Britany Man.

_________________________
Dustin says, "Today is a gift, Have Fun."

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#478142 - 04/18/17 04:03 PM Re: Removing Disc set striker plugs from breech face [Re: salopian]
Ted Schefelbein Online   content
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 5796
Loc: mpls, mn.
Salopian,
You can build a better tool than what is pictured. The adjustability is the Achilles heel in the Menck design.
Build it specific to the task at hand. You may end up with three different tools, but, that is better than wishing you had three different tools after the universal model didn't work out.


Best,
Ted

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#478177 - 04/19/17 10:17 AM Re: Removing Disc set striker plugs from breech face [Re: salopian]
Brittany Man Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 389
Loc: Midwest
Having actually used the Menck tool to successfully remove a couple of striker discs w/o buggering up either the striker disc or the breech face I don't think I would change any thing if building one from scratch.

The adjustable spacing of the design allows a very precise fit of the pins to the striker disc holes & once adjusted is very solid.

The one thing I would change is the instructions for use:

1. To prevent burring the holes in the striker disc I first precisely fit the pins to the holes (I bought extra pins when I ordered my tool) leaving the original diameter on the back side of the pin where it fits into the tool face.

2. I would not use the recommended impact driver unless I had tried all other alternatives first. With the 1/2" drive you can provide plenty of torque with a T handle or breaker bar & have a lot more control of the tool & if that didn't work I would set it up in a vertical mill or heavy drill press so you could maintain heavy pressure on the tool while turning it by hand (same technique as used for really stuck screws).

The objective is to remove & replace the striker disc & having it look like it was never removed in the first place. This may not be possible in all cases & at the very least we want to avoid marring up the breech face. New striker discs can me made & fitted if all else fails but the breech face is difficult to repair.

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#478309 - 04/20/17 03:27 PM Re: Removing Disc set striker plugs from breech face [Re: salopian]
Idahillie Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 04/19/17
Posts: 2

Hello ladies and gentlemen,
I am new to your form in search of a highly qualified gunsmith to repair, possibly making a new sear or spring for my 1950s German16 gauge double gun.
Idahillie
(Idaho hillbillIie)

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#478351 - 04/21/17 06:10 AM Re: Removing Disc set striker plugs from breech face [Re: salopian]
big al1 Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 10/05/10
Posts: 96
Loc: north east
i was just wondering did anyone try to copy the Menck adjustable bit like tool?

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#478352 - 04/21/17 06:32 AM Re: Removing Disc set striker plugs from breech face [Re: salopian]
Franc Otte Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 3414
Loc: NH
Idahillie,
you'd be better starting yourself a new thread on your German gun..post one here in the DIY forum, & also on the General discussion forum...let people know where you are..Idaho, I guess
Its better than hijacking a thread smile
Welcome to the board n good luck
cheers
Franc

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