doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The Square Load

Drew -

Light guns - who GAF? A 12ga can be built lighter than anyone wants to shoot and probably perform better than any other ga in the process.
Of course there is that segment of the crowd that insists on doing things the difficult and stupid way so the other gauges are there for them. Just because a pheasant can be killed with a .410 doesn't mean a rational person sees that as the way it should be done. Etc.

I always thought a Square Load meant that the Height of just the shot column in a shell was equal to the width of the inside diameter of the shell case.So if viewed from the side in a clear plastic shell, the lead shot would look square, as in height & width.
cheers
ooops, just like Millers post of above
franc

Of all the Hype I have read over the years on the Square load I have as of yet to see evan an attempt at a logical explanation as to why this should make a more efficient load. Seems everyone who Exalts it "Blames" its use on the English. To the best of my knowledge neither Greener or Burrard mentioned it, so perhaps comes from some more obscure writer or from a later date.
I will say that if I desired to shoot a 1oz load, which I have on many occasions, I would much prefer to shoot it from either a 12 or 16 than from a 28 gauge. My reasoning here is the shorter column in the larger bores should result in a more efficient pattern without the necessity of all premium components.
Some of the best shooting I ever did in my life for upland hunting which included quail, some woodcock & rabbits being chased by beagles was using a 12ga @ 6lb 14oz using a low velocity, a bit over 1100 fps, 1oz load. The gun was a damascus J P Clabrough sidelock, pressure of the load was given in the manual as about 8K, never saw much need for a lower pressure. I like to keep- the max pressure as close to the breech as possible on the older guns which means faster powders & then load down to desired max.

I picked the load for the task at hand and used(for years) 1 1/4 oz. #2 shot(short magnum)in a 16 ga O/U with 60 cm cyl/cyl barrels for Hare and 1 1/8 oz #8 in the same barrels for partridge; with complete satisfaction. These would not be "square loads" at all. The 16 ga is not "stupid", it is wonderful.

The only thing I remember being square was shot designed to spread out more. It was available in Europe years ago (Belgian I think) and not necessarily in 16ga. Years ago Orvis used to offer discus shaped pellets in loaded shells. I like my 16ga it carries like a 12 but recoils like a 20. Not bad at all.

Chris Batha brought Vintagers Order back to Great Britain from USA .

The 'square' concept keeps coming back periodically because the rags have pages to fill up.

There's an interesting discussion online from 2007 'at another shotgun related site' as it were, easily found with a search, between Wakeman and Lopez. It sums up the debate for those interested.

Personally, I find the biggest variable as far as performance to be shot hardness. An extreme example was trying hit anything with Rio 410 shells. That is as dismal a factory load as can be found. Sure enough, they contain (or did at the time, about 8 years ago) what can only be drop shot.


If there really is a 'gauge' that performs better than it has any right, it's not the 16 or 28.... it's the 410 (with good shells), and that's about as 'over-square' as can be.

Just today at a doctor's office read a blurb in an outdoor magazine about a Benelli 28ga with 3" chambers. Fiocchi is loading shells in that length with 1 oz of shot. the writer said he & several others had carried these on a 3 day pheasant hunt & regularly killed pheasants at a "Verified" 60-70 yards. He didn't state the size of shot they were using. Personally I sort of took that with a "Grain of Salt"
I have shot 1� oz of shot at approximately 1100 fps from a sub 6lb, by a couple of ounces, 16gauge with no ill affects. I would not want to shoot it in a high volume situation though. I currently have 5 16 gauge guns. One is a H&A single, three are doubles & one is a hammer drilling in 16x16x9.3-72R. The sub 6 lp'er is a Halifax by Darne with double proof, the double are a Baker Black Beauty & an H grade Lefever Arms Co. The drilling is a Miller & Val Greiss. I see nothing at all wrong with a good 16 but have little time for anything smaller than a 20.
Never saw anything out of either the 28 or .410 which would not be expected of them. Fact is it is not hard at all to have a 30 yd gun, but every 5 yards you add keeps taking More & More & MORE.

Those are two, er, "robust" loads for use in a 16, ain't they? I use an ounce in a 12 a lot of the time.
I never hunted true hares, unless those long front legged rabbits that you see in southern MN count, but, prefered a .22 rimfire rifle for bunnies, when I was into that kind of stuff, before I had my own dogs that I try to teach some manners to.
I don't honestly know if I have ever fed a 16 a bigger load than 1 oz. I found some 1 1/4 oz Remingtons at a garage sale, but, I'm too chicken to light one off in my Nitro Special.


Best,
Ted

I don't hunt with a .410 Miller, I'm just not good enough with my 410 Uggie, and I'm not lugging a 7 pound target gun just to shoot a 410.

I've shot with some fantastic .410 shooters. They can really score well, even at sporting targets that are not set 'small gauge friendly'.

I shoot mostly skeet with my .410, and frequently am treated with the sight of a target just getting hammered as if by a 12 gauge load. Sometimes I pull the shell out, admire it, and say 'really?'.

Yes, they aren't that far away and even with a 410 it's a high average game, but it sure is fun. It still makes me chuckle, and the first target of the day when changing to the 410 is still a pleasant shock... 'Where the recoil at?'.

I can see value in the sguare load when loading a muzzle loader.
Simply because of only needing to have one measure on the person, which does both powder & shot.
There are enough other bits & bobs to carry beside 2 measures.
O.M