doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Some English guns won't make proof.

Let caution be your guide in the import market. I congratulate all of the fellows who have recently bought an English double which proved to be sound. But over on the Spanish gun forum, we have known for some time that a number of guns are being exported from England to avoid being re-proofed. Check those barrel walls!

True, but if they get caught the penalites are extreme. Exporting a gun out of proof is just like selling one out of proof. I do not shoot any gun until I have measured the barrels. Too many a-holes honing, reaming and buggering up good barrels to hide pits and wear. I am quite fond aof all of my fingers so trust but measure first is a sound motto.

Exactly. It is rare to find one for sale out of proof for that reason. Since exportation has to go through RFDs even those released from the unknowing (or knowingly criminal) seem to be caught. I had one a few years ago that I knew should have been cut from a provincial auction house that it turned out wasn't. It was caught by the exporter and so I had it cut (at my cost).

Interestingly there is no specification per se on wall thickness in the proof laws, the proof of the pudding, as it were, being in the testing. Tradition has it at about 20 thou. However, guns are legal to sell below that point if they are still within proof. You will see warnings to that effect at the more informed and informative auction houses like Holts


Jeremy

Volleyfire, Perhaps you would like to be more explicit and give us some facts rather than malicious gossip.
We could then bring the perpetrators to book.

I heard of one at 16 Thou passing proof.

Not long ago some "experts" on Spanish shotguns vilified a poster who dared suggest that proof was mandatory in CIP nations and who produced official evidence to back up the claim. The vehemence of the flaming (one sided) was surprising.

Proof status is still mandatory, in CIP member states, it cannot be legally evaded by the exporting side. The question is if it creates any legal claim for the final buyer in the USA and other non CIP country in case he is sold an out of proof shotgun that "somehow" slips through the regulatory net.

There may have been a time when that occured, but, it wouldn't happen today. Procedures have changed at the proof house, and each barrel is tested twice, once with a load that develops peak pressure in the chamber, and with a second load that develops peak pressure 9" from the breech. Subjecting guns that weren't produced to handle this level of proof seems like pure folly to me, but, that is the way it is. Many old guns will fail reproof, as it exists today.

Best,
Ted

OK, I give up.

Show me the "proof" that "we have know for some time that number of guns are being imported from England to avoid being re-proofed"

Talk is cheap. Evidence is of value.



Bv

I'd hope it never becomes a question. If I'm not mistaken, the buyer also has a responsibility to follow CIP law. Wouldn't that be a hoot if the CIP could enforce their laws in a non CIP country, like the US.

Well Fellows,

You are welcome. I was under the impression that all of these websites were based on gossip... a bit of insider information passed along by the knowing to friends. If you choose to believe that an $80000 shotgun suddenly turned up on your doorstep for $5000, because it was out of fashion... buy with my blessing.