doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Question for you Anglopholes

canvasback,

You're absolutely right about the pros using what the money pushes. But, in competition shotguns we are talking about brands, not types. You couldn't give my buddy Bill McGuire enough sponsorship "perks" to get him to start shooting a S x S against the rest of the "big boys". Nor any of the other top shooters on the NSCA and PSCA circuits. Winning is important to the sponsor, and they know they wouldn't get the wins necessary to sell their sponsors guns, and the next thing that would happen is that the sponsor would drop them. This is all just my opinion, of course, based on what I've seen.

moses,

You say that "your head can work over & rationalize anything, but your heart tells you the truth". I would add the caveat that, in the case of really serious shooters who want to win above all else, the scoreboard is what really tells the truth. And, that is why O/Us dominate when the money is on the line.

SRH

The granddaddy of the target games was Trap Shooting, and that meant flyers. Our forefathers considered pigeon shooting senseless in the absence of stakes. There's no 'practice for hunting' involved, the shoot is for money and bragging rights.

It's possible that the first celebrity endorsement of a commercial product was in 1851 when noted player and author (and blowhard) Howard Staunton recommend a practical chess set design to the public. He received a piece of the action for lending his name to the 'Staunton pattern'. It's the standard set even today, but on it's own merits.

A few years later, the top shooters were backed by sporting arms makers and the trend snowballed from there. Trap shooters were famous back in the day, and their recommendation sold guns.

Perazzi got on the map due to Olympic success. Nobody ever heard of Perazzi before 1968.

People are impressionable and desire to project an image, and that image is sold to them. You need look no farther than Shooting Sportsman magazine to see the marketing of pretentiousness. The XX 'most interesting man in the world' ad campaign is a brilliant spoof on this basic human trait so we can laugh at it, but it does sell beer. Lots and lots of beer.

Remember 'stock car' races back when there was such a thing? The winning brand sold the most cars Monday morning. Because, of course, people want to be identified with a winner, the highest style, the 'hippest' thing.

The equipment you choose is a more complex decision than you probably even know. Why does a certain gun appeal to you? A little frank self analysis may prove insightful.

Me? I like them all. There is no cure and I am doomed.

Motivation? After they paid him, the companies that Woods endorsed made multi millions of dollars not only from their regulars, but a whole new batch of customers that showed up overnight. Try asking a weekend hunter or some fellow looking over shotguns at a show if they recognize the names of any clays competition heros.

The game gun market may be small and shrinking. It's probably asking quite a bit of any company to go out on the limb of trying to resurrect a known product that hasn't sold like hotcakes for quite some time. If ten years of pricey marketing show some signs of moving the needle, what's stopping the usual under cutters from dumping a bunch of coach guns on the market?

We need your help. Can you think of a celebrity that'll get little kids to bug their folks for shooting gear and lessons, like Woods did for golf? Or, are there other long odds to overcome?

And "The Hunger Games" did wonders for archery.

Good point about not many people (other than competitive shooters) who know the names of the top pros.

Given the size of the OU market compared to sxs, it's interesting that a lot of writers whose columns and articles you read regularly in outdoor magazines--especially those in the bird/dog/gun "niche"--are sxs shooters. I think nostalgia plays a much greater role with hunters than it does with competitive shooters. Although note that there are several big sxs shoots (which are more about fun and the guns than they are about competition) that are doing quite well. And if I were to mention the name of someone who just won a big Sporting Clays shoot, I'm positive that it wouldn't ring the same bell with sxs shooters as if I were to mention Gene Hill or Michael McIntosh, or Steve Smith or Tom Huggler or Tom Davis.

We're really talking about two different worlds that, while they touch each other, don't overlap very much.

Owner serviceability is an increasingly important feature when you consider the legal hurdles of sending a gun to the maker or a distant craftsman.

And it is obvious that "best", whether English or other, are not owner serviceable.

If I cannot pull the stock off, check the internals, clean and lube them, and reassemble in less than an hour, then I have a problem I can do without.

Then maybe best guns are not for you. My 20's vintage H&H has had no maintenance beyond a simple clean and oil in the ten years or so I have had it. I have pulled the locks and they show all original parts, no springs or screws replaced. It is not like these things break constantly. Mine is running in strong original condition nearly 100 years after it was built. They are not made of glass.

The maintenance issues are not a problem unless you drop it into a pond or swamp. If that happens you will need turn screws (very expensive screwdrivers that fit precisely into narrow screw slots). I had to grind inexpensive bits to fit specific screws because whatever I bought never fit quite right. More expensive ones were hand-fitted and finished making servicing easier. The downside is if some part actually breaks it has to be made and fitted or at least custom fitted.

Of course they will not give up their O/U's. A quick look at the SxS choices for replacement tells the tale of that. Who would? A modern gun and a motivated sponsor could attend to that big time. Money talks.

My Purdey pigeon gun will no longer win any box bird shoots, but the gun is not at fault. However, I will continue to use and respect it. The odd thing is that side by side double guns continue to win most of the money at our shoots. Thankfully, our shooters value tradition and "fun" more than purses. Stan, my good friend, is welcome to compete at our shoots with his Perazzi, but he may be overwhelmed by the Fabbris and Japanese Brownings that may be in the rack.

The last great champion of the S X S in the big money pigeon competition was Billy Perdue. He started out with a 21, switched to a Parker and shot it loose, shot a Purdey for 21 years after bending the barrels to shoot to where he wanted, then ordered a Fabbri. It came with 28" barrels which he didn't like so he ordered another. He had switched to a single trigger and believed that Fabbri had the best single trigger in the world. Oddly enough, one of the Fabbris had regulation issues and is still floating around the South with stickers all over the buttstock from flyer shoots around the world.

Just goes to show that good guns are where you find them. A big name and a big price tag guarantees nothing, even though it should. The pattern plate tells all, and never lies. As much faith as I have in Perazzis I would never blindly use one without patterning it to verify regulation and to make certain it shot where it was supposed to for me. I will go out on a limb and say that at least three-fourths of the shotgunners in America have never shot a pattern plate or paper to verify that their gun is shooting where it should, and that most of them are not!!

SRH