doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Question for you Anglopholes

That above statement is a bit hard to understand.
Could you please clarify the intended meaning.
O.M

Boss " Makers of Best Guns only"

I had no idea Beretta had been around for that long. Fair play , that's impressive. Their modern guns clearly have a well deserved reputation too, as do Browning with their brilliant designs which was said earlier.
Cogswell & Harrison have been in business since 1770 and there were a great many gun making firms which were in business before that but didn't survive as long, but I'm guessing it's breech loading shotguns were talking about here.
I think the brit gun trade borrowed/refined several European designs (french and German ?) Which led to the handful of much copied actions we still see in use today. The A&D boxlock springs to mind along with the famous sidelock and O/U designs. Maybe it's things like choked barrels and reliable ejector and trigger systems and the non stop research into balance, patterning and ammunition that helped give the English/British shotgun it's fine reputation back in the day. We also churned out millions of basic trade guns and some patent guns which didn't really work very well. Some were tools, some were built for the more discerning customer and other firms chose only to make the finest guns (even if many of these were born on a bench in the Midlands next to a utility grade gun the same pair of hands were working on.)
One thing is clear, there were amd still are superb guns made in many countries.
Some firms such as SKB had been around for a surprisingly long time too . Beretta may take some beating though.

Are there any really old Berettas that survive....

Not a Beretta historian but I thought the Italians mostly made junk guns until 60 or 70 years ago and got where they got by copying others designs.

My point is that the Italians do not receive proper credit for their amazing domination of the market for fine double guns. Not only the continuous operation of one gunmaker, Beretta, but the innovations that have come from the little region of Brescia are astounding when taken into consideration. English names such as Boss, Woodward, Westley Richards, and Purdey cast a large shadow, but there is possibly a greater presence of gun making excellence. The monicker "London Gun" has carried an aura of near awe, and has been held up as a banner for two centuries. But, the awe might well be better placed now with the term "Brescia Gun".

Consider not only the high end guns of the goliath Beretta, but the likes of Rizzini, Piotti, Guerini, Zanardini, Poli, Perugini & Visini, Famars Abbiatico and Salvanelli, and to ramp it up a notch or two ...... Perazzi, Bosis and Fabbri. And there are many, many more small shops in operation there today turning out the finest double guns with some of the finest engraving the world has ever known

I'm not casting aspersions on the great English makers, but by all means give all credit due to the finest competition, and hunting doubles in the world that come from the the Val Trompia, and surrounding area.

SRH

They filled a void left open by the English gun makers....

What always puzzled me at my gun club was every time you look around someone is having trouble out of their Perrazi yet the following remains.

The trade in Italy took a HUGE hit with the last economic downturn and is on life support at best, save Beretta. Most of the smaller makers and some decent sized ones like A&S are no longer in business. I think the Italians are wonderful at bolino style engraving and target guns. Game guns? Not so much. They try but I believe the term London Best continues to this day for a reason. I'll keep my 20's vintage H&H self-opener thanks.

The royalty angle is amusting. If Purdey depended on royalty and nobility for his living he would have gone bankrupt. The shaming of fellow lords and nobles by Lord Henry Bentinck to pay up their debts to Purdey is well documented.

The ledger books of Purdey and other makers feature more plain Misters and middle army ranks than lords and princes. The untitled were and are the bread and butter clientele.

Designwise, there is not a boxlock made anywhere that can rival the Beretta 626. In sidelocks their 451 can stand against any other. In OU sidelocs the trapezoid shoulders yield a shallower and NARROWER gun than any Boss derived OU.

As for what can be done if you go seriously custom, the photo is of a humble Essential 686 that was customised by British gunmaker Casleton. I post the link because photo posting here is such a pain

http://oplognosia.com/?s=Casleton&submit=

That thing is butt ugly...

The English gun has been tested over and over again on more than one continent in the harshest conditions and under the most dangerous of circumstances for centuries. No other has been put to that extreme test for that amount of time.