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Argo44 Offline OP
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I Think William Evans made a mistake. I think these guns were ordered by a gun dealer for various persons in NW England and sold to them. The 20 bore was bought by Jacob Wakefield for his son. I'l check with Wm Evans again to clarify that letter. Wakefield was not a gun dealer - no reason for him to have ordered all six.

Wonder if the kid's right eye was weak?

Last edited by Argo44; 03/28/17 12:07 AM.

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If you notice Gun #5210 is already longer by 1/8th. Is that 1/8 of an inch or 1/8th longer LOP then the other five guns?
Notice the handwritten comment, "Bend, length, cast same as but 1/8 longer"

Did all guns have a bend?

Would William Evans used a recoil pad like that? That wood extension in there probably because at 13 years of age that kid (WHW) had a lot more growing to do.


How do you know he resold them?

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Argo44 Offline OP
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When I saw that drawing of WH Wakefield, I thought I'd seen that face before. This is a famous photo from India...."The Last Empire" (republished in America under a different name), a collection of photos (fantastic) of the Raj (called by the Indians the "Sirkar"). The problem is the photo is dated "1860."

-- I'm having a hard time seeing hammers on those guns - they may be there - not sure; but since hammerless guns didn't come out until about 1880...no matter - I have an EM Reilly with hammers firmly dated to 1898.

-- And in 1860 there were demned few center-break shotguns out there...everyone used something that would shoot British Army ammo...and breech loaders didn't even come into use in India until the Snider-Enfields started to arrive about 1866. (Center break guns were made and publicized by British gun makers impinging on Casimir Lefaucheux's patents beginning in the 1850's.. but the shooting fraternity was extremely conservative).

-- No under-levers either. No Damascus barrels but rather steel....

-- And I'm not sure Indian Army (British Army) was using "puttees" (Lower leg boot wraps) at the time (I thought they came out of WWI), and I don't think "Khaki," color invented by the Guides in India existed until the late 1880's; these guys are not army..but are wearing Khaki and puttees.

-- And the key - The center character is wearing a wrist watch - They didn't become popular until 1914-6 courtesy of Soldier fashion. "On July 9, 1916, The New York Times puzzled over a fashion trend: Europeans were starting to wear bracelets with clocks on them."

The photo is clearly mis-dated by some 60 years. So is the center person actually WH Wakefield out in India circa 1920? (edit: Underlever on the shotgun on the left; possible Damascus barrels on the shotgun on the right; possible hammers on all of them?)





The above is a pretty silly post and extremely unlikely. This was a wealthy and prominent family. The Grandfather had a gunpowder company as well as a bank and a railroad. And someone sketched him as a young man in Kendel. Nevertheless, I can find no follow-on information on Jacob's son William Henry. There were numerous Wakefields who worked in India or were connected to India. The Family gave up the great house before WWII. It is credible that faced with other relatives running the banking business....he went out to India...perhaps as a 20 year old before WWI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Wakefield

Do my eyes deceive me or is there a significant cast off on that shotgun on his lap?

Last edited by Argo44; 05/07/17 12:02 AM.

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I was wrong on the puttees....1897 photo of British Army troops mobilized for the "Mad Mullah"campaigns of 1897-98 in the Pashtun areas of Bajur, Kyber, etc. Churchill wrote a great book about the Bajur campaign The Story of the Malakand Field Force.. (for what it's worth, I've driven over that pass (going north from the Peshawar plains over into the Swat Valley)....and flown over it in helicopters - how anyone could climb those Knifed-edged ridges under fire is beyond me).

.

Allegedly a Photo of Guides troops during the relief of the Chitral fort in 1895..I doubt that - they had to go over the Shandur Pass, a 14,000' Himalayan pass from Gilgit to Chitral in dead of winter (unless they were part of the second prong which forced the Malakand Pass - coming up from Peshawar). (Recommend the book "Where Three Empires Meet" if you're curious). They're holding brand new Martini-Henry's. After the mutiny, Brits always made sure Indian troops were one generation behind in rifles...By this time Lee-Enfield (Long Lees) were being issued to British troops.



This from Wikipedia:

The puttee was first adopted as part of the service uniform of foot and mounted soldiers serving in British India during the second half of the nineteenth century. In its original form the puttee comprised long strips of cloth worn as a tribal legging in the Himalayas. The British Indian Army found this garment to be both comfortable and inexpensive, although it was considered to lack the smartness of the gaiter previously worn.[2] According to the British author and soldier Patrick Leigh Fermor infantry puttees were wound up from ankle to knee, but in cavalry regiments they were wound down from knee to ankle. [3]

The puttee was subsequently widely adopted by a number of armies including those of the British Commonwealth, the Austro-Hungarian Army, the Chinese National Revolutionary Army, the Belgian Army, the Dutch Army, the French Army, the Imperial Japanese Army, the Italian Army, the Portuguese Army, the Turkish Army and the United States Army. Most of these armies adopted puttees during or shortly before World War I. Puttees were in general use by the British Army as part of the khaki service uniform worn from 1902, until 1938 when a new Battledress was introduced, which included short webbing gaiters secured with buckles.[4]

Puttees generally ceased to be worn as part of military uniform during World War II. Reasons included the difficulty of quickly donning an item of dress that had to be wound carefully around each leg, plus medical reservations regarding hygiene and varicose veins. However the cheapness and easy availability of cloth leggings meant that they were retained in the Japanese and some other armies until 1945.

When the British Army finally replaced Battledress with the 1960 Pattern Combat Dress, the webbing gaiters were replaced by ankle high puttees

++++++++++++++++And I'm wrong about Khaki++++++++++++++++

Khaki was first worn in the Corps of Guides that was raised in December 1846 as the brain-child of Sir Henry Lawrence (1806–1857) Resident at Lahore, and Agent to the Governor-General for the North-West Frontier. Lawrence chose as its commandant Sir Harry Lumsden supported by William Stephen Raikes Hodson as Second-in-Command to begin the process of raising the Corps of Guides for frontier service from British Indian recruits at Peshawar, Punjab.

Initially the border troops were dressed in their native costume, which consisted of a smock and white pajama trousers made of a coarse home-spun cotton, and a cotton turban, supplemented by a leather or padded cotton jacket for cold weather. For the first year (1847) no attempt was made at uniformity. Subsequently, in 1848 Lumsden and Hodson decided to introduce a drab (khaki) uniform[4] which Hodson commissioned his brother in England to send them – as recorded in Hodson's book of published letters, Twelve Years of a Soldier's Life in India.[2]

It was only at a later date, when supplies of drab (khaki) material was unavailable, did they improvise by dying material locally with a dye prepared from the native mazari palm. Some believe the gray drab/khaki color it produced was used historically by Afghan tribals for camouflaging themselves. The mazari could not, however, dye leather jackets and an alternative was sought: Cloth was dyed in mulberry juice which gave a yellowish drab shade.[5]:537–539 Subsequently, all regiments, whether British or Indian, serving in the region had adopted khaki uniforms for active service and summer dress. The original khaki fabric was a closely twilled cloth of linen or cotton..

Last edited by Argo44; 04/07/17 11:17 PM.

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"Bend" in the ledger refers to the drop at comb and heel and has nothing to do with the cast of the stock.
All guns have bend...

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OK, that explains the words 'bend' and 'cast' in the description.

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Argo44 Offline OP
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I'm belaboring this line but here is explanation for the comment by William Evans that this 20 bore bought by Jacob Wakefield was part of "a six gun order." Williams Evans explained that Wakefield did not order six guns. Rather Williams Evans sent a bundled order at one time from six separate individuals to "the factory" and at that point the (ordered) six were serial numbered. The six guns had been ordered by separate individuals from William Evans; their names are listed in the ledger. So Wakefield ordered one gun #5210 and traded in #6050 as credit (perhaps a deposit on a separate order?).

I have no idea who made William Evans guns at the time or where "the factory" was located. Previous posts (trw999) indicate Birmingham as a source of "white guns" and in particular Webley Scott.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=461982

Last edited by Argo44; 04/07/17 08:41 PM.

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But what about the comment on the hand written note,

"Bend, length cast same as (I can't make that out) but 1/8 longer."

With the asterisk it appears that the length has to be 1/8 longer.


Well, 1/8 longer than what?

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But it looks like the original LOP was 13 1/2 inches as you said which may be a perfect LOP for a 13 year old boy but as he grew then it appears that the gun was to short for him and the wood extension was fitted. In India?

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The way I read it is that there was a batch of six guns but only 5210 went to Wakefield with the other five having other owners.

Nice to see a 20 bore of the proper weight of 5 1/4 ounces. Good reason to use the correct weight of 20 bore cartridges of 13/16th. ounce.

Always interesting when the history of a gun can be traced. Kendal is at the south end of the Lake District National Park. Beautiful area to visit. Lagopus.....

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