doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com If you had only one choke.

One reason I like doubles is that I can have two different chokes if I want them. But if I had to be limited to just one choke I could be happy with I/C or even Lt. Mod, but IM or full have less usefulness than more open chokes for my shooting needs. I think one proble with fixed chokes barrels are that too many of them are too tight for most people these days. That and pump guns are a tough sell these days because people who have never shot them think they are slow but I find I can pump faster than I can get back into target for a second or third shot. Not slow at all.


So if you had only one choke what would it be?

Modified for most of my use.

I/C. I vary my patterns by using different hardness shot. I've never felt handicapped with I/C.

Mergus

For the hunting I do, I like a skeet choke.

one choke

AND ONLY ONE GUN??????????

oh the humanity

I would have to go with IC. (and only take shots within the effective range)

LM, 0.015 or so, in 12 gauge.

Apparently it should be Mod -

http://www.shootingtimes.com/long-guns/longgun_reviews_st_headintheclouds_201002/

But I do like my SK1 very much.

what ever the gun was built with. My misses are feet, chokes give me inches....

I agree with Larry's answer, however if limited to just one I'd chose I/C. I read a long time ago that if one were limited to one choke and shot size for sporting clays (hunters coarse) that the best compomise would be I/C and #8 shot.
Karl

LM

I made that decision for sporting years ago..020", modified. I can open it up on demand with spreaders, but it's hard to tighten one up much. After about 10 years of use, I'm satisfied it would serve me well for all hunting I do.

SRH

Youch! One choke? Isn't a big reason we all like doubles and have multiples of them is that we are not forced into that decision? LOL

I'm aiming for an assortment of guns with every possible variation of choke! Why choke variation is the perfect excuse for buying multiple versions of the exact same gun! LOL

One choke? if only one the .010 constriction.

I am a doublegun guy and expect two barrels and two chokes, if tied to only two then .005 right and .015 left, as I shoot over points 90% of the time

I believe that I could live with improved modified.
I do have a gun with both barrels choked imp mod, which when I bought it I thought would be good. That thought has since proved out.
O.M

Hummm
Only one choke, I would go with mod. But thank God, I have doubles,
Mostly I/C and Mod. It's to pounder, when I pull that second trigger, modified 9 out of 10 times gets the job done!

Yea,
Nothing like going home from a hunt with a clean left barrel!
Ksrl

If I only had one choke, life would be so diminished I certainly wouldn't bother with this website.

But the choke would be IC. 20 ga. and steel safe so I could hunt everything happily for the rest of my long life.

For most of my hunting IC would be a good compromise. I have a French gun I use for dog training and a lot of the grouse hunting here, including sharptails. It is bored light IC and Full. I get most of my birds over a spaniel using the right barrel...IC.

I would have to go IC. It can kill a bird out to some crazy distances, and with just 3/4 oz of shot. I had my eyes opened to that capability by my shooting mentor some years ago. KY John, my French guns with fixed chokes are/were indeed too tight, so I went the easy route and brought in from France a set of barrels in the white, had Kirk Merrington fit them to the gun, and PA24 black them after they had been nicely engraved. Needed open barrels for my first go at ruffs on the north shore of Superior, and that barrel set almost never leaves the gun, choked .000 and .007. I have another set in the white that I was going to have fit to the other Ideal, but it's the wrong era. Lo and behold, it is the correct era for the first Ideal that has two sets. So of course, the logical thing to do is have them made into a third set. Perhaps choked .005 and .015?

Wingshooter,
I also like .005 and .015 or .020, and if I were to actually chose my chokes instead of just using the IC/MOD that came with my guns that is what I'd pick. I've read that to take advantage of two barrels, the chokes should be two constrictions apart to make a meaningful difference.
Karl

I do have one 12 gauge double which has .010" in both barrels. At the time it was built I believe this was referred to as 1/4 choke. "IF" I could only have one that would be it. That said though my Go To gun for a number of years has a .012/.024 combo. It has successfully killed Quail, Woodcock, Dove, Rabbit, Squirrel, Duck & a couple of Turkeys. It is 12 ga & has been loaded with from 1 oz to 1 3/8oz.It weighs in at about 7� lbs with 26" barrels which I have found that length to present no handicap to me at all.

Full

IC is probably best for most people if we're talking hunting. It covers the spread of distances at which most game birds are shot.

use 'a turkey jOe?

Why would you handicap yourself in a situation in which you would be better off with a modified choke, when you can drop (off the shelf) spreaders in the gun and shoot improved cylinder patterns? At $9/ box, shipped to your door, it's no big deal.

The chance of you being able to find a factory load that makes an IC shoot a M pattern is extremely slim. It's easy to go the other way, however. My belief is that I should have enough choke for most any situation. Besides that, tight chokes will make a better shooter out of you, if you're willing to do some clay shooting during the off season.

SRH

0.010" for uplands. 12 ga to .410.

Spreaders are kind of salty, not readily available and my grouse guru hunting buddy says they are game cripplers. I have no experience hunting with spreaders, but that's what he says. Have you hunted with spreaders, Stan?

6 of my 9 M12's are full choked- the Pigeon Grade Trap is choked Imp. Mod-, almost Full-4 of the 5 L.C. Smiths are either M&F or F&F- all 12 gauges. As I mainly pass shoot waterfowl, and take soaring barn pigeons and crows in the off-seasons, I like the reach the full chokes give me--and I like 7&1/2" AA or RST loads. MY 20 gauge Sterlingworth, and the Model 12 in that gauge- mod and full, the M12 is modified.

I am NOT a skeet or SC shooter-so the IC and skeet and .010" chokes aren't my choice, nor do I hunt grouse or woodcock nowadays, and do not hunt over a close working pointing dog anymore.

I like to see pigeons and crows crumple up dead in the air, with a nice float of free-falling feathers in the air--and for my shooting style, a tight choke works best to achieve those results.

buzz,

Hinterland Outfitters will ship as many flats as you're willing to buy to your door for $8.99, flat shipping fee. They're Fiocchi Interceptors, and I have patterned them on my grease plate with excellent results. There is nothing about the patterns I've seen that would lead me to believe that they are cripplers. I have not used them on game ..... yet. Main reason is that they are only available in 12 ga. and I very seldom use a 12 in the field for anything but ducks or turkeys, and that is a tighter choke game, for the most part. Besides, this is really a moot question. 99% of us have multiple choked guns we can use anyway.

The pattern plate tells the tale. There can be nothing about spreaders that would make them a game crippler that would not show up on the plate. The only other option is that someone tries to stretch the yardage too far with a spreader, but that's not the fault of the shell. From what I can see there is no difference in patterns from the Fiocchis than with a regular shell of the same payload out of a more open choke.

SRH

Fair enough. Thx Stan.

When I was guiding ruffed grouse hunters in eastern MN back in the day, I asked people to not use spreaders because one of them clipped my setter with 7-9 number 8s on a trip. The shot didn't penetrate the dog hide very far, and I squeezed them out back at the truck. I was mad as hell at the moment, but, it could have been worse, I suppose. People who don't hunt much do tend to lose focus on where the dog is, at the flush, which, I suppose is human nature. It is easy to have a dog on point 25 yards away, and find the bird flushing, while you are still trying to see the dog in the brush. You know the pooch is out there, on point, you just aren't positive where.

Spreaders are not a perfect solution. There are times you don't want to use them. Outside of those moments, they open up possiblilities, for a single gun, single barrel sportsman.

I'm not that guy.

I'm glad I don't have to limit myself to one choke, it would be hard to go from opening day of woodcock season, to the very last day of pheasant season, with but a single choke. If I had to, I'd guess an IC would be the best choice, but, I'd have to pass up shots on some of the wiser roosters I'd see who have developed a feel for the range of a 12 gauge toward seasons end.


Best,
Ted

Couldn't agree more with you re the bird dog Ted. It may or may not have been the spreaders....more likely a careless hunter. This past season I literally brow beat my hunters in terms of the dogs. Every point we walked in on I warned them to be aware of the dog. If dogs are not steady to wing and maybe shot, they are going to go with the flush which puts them in harms way. Since the majority of my dogs are not steady to the flush, I explain this to the hunters with warning to watch for the dog at almost every point. I'm sure they tire of it but too bad.

You and me, both!

SRH

All my shotguns are IC/M, except for 16 Parker hammer 0 grade cyl/full, which I consider perfect for grouse in our conditions.

I could hunt on out to the Long Good-bye using IC over dogs and picking my dove shots. In a pinch, M with and without spreaders. Turkeys are another matter. Fortunately those I hunt with are dog people who understand the dangers of shooting low birds and don't. My dogs aren't steady to wing and shot and will move to the bird on flush which is what I desire in wild bird hunting. Boxed, "boot and shoot" birds can cause problems with some hunters who can't resist shooting parallel to the ground, or worse, down, at low and slow birds endangering dogs running after flush. A buddy of mine stopped taking his cousin who couldn't restrain himself and nearly shot a preserve owner's dog. It was a miracle he missed. The cousin is a leo which is even more baffling and disturbing about his poor gun handling habits. Gil

Too many hunters should be in front of the dogs not behind them.

I know Stan and I have little common ground but what he has to say about chokes rings right at true for me FWIW.
OK there is one thing. I never have bought into that "full choke will make you better" BS. Proper training/practice and a better technique will make a better shooter. Most shooters are wholly incompetent when it comes to assessing skills and technique mods necessary. Tight chokes are for very competent shooters who actually know what they're doing.

JMO of course - - shoot what you like

have another day
Dr.WtS

While I appreciate most members here live in the lower 48, not all do. There are a good number of us for whom picking up the phone and ordering a flat of spreaders (and any other of the wonderful options you have available) is just not possible.

For example, I have been reading about RST for the whole time I have been a member here. The have only become available in Canada in the last 6 months. And what do I mean by available? Special order for whole flat, your order gets added to the next shipment up from the US (whenever that may be), shipment goes to Alberta, and then the individual flat is shipped to the consumer. Shipping cost alone for a flat of RST is about $40. Can't mix and match.

I'm very glad we can finally get them but you have to be pretty dedicated. Normal hunter isn't going to bother.

Most ammo recommendations I read about here just aren't available here and in many other places.

Charles, I should have said that shooting tight chokes made me a better shooter. A lot better, actually. Note that I did not say full. I include modified in the "tight" category, which is what my MX8 is choked in both barrels (for sporting clays).

I have heard several others say the same thing, but I should not have made a blanket statement that it will make everybody better. Good point. And, as far as our common ground ..... Hey! we both like Perazzis!

SRH

To me, the tough thing about tight chokes is that if someone wants it opened up, it's a smart thing. Later, if that gun is for sale, someone messed with it. Barrel thicknesses can be measured, but it's almost as if there needs to be some documentation that an elite barrel smith did the work.

The way I approach deciding whether or not to open chokes on a gun is like this: I ask myself first, am I really ...... I mean am I REALLY planning on keeping this gun for a long, long time? If I am, then I remind myself that if I take a loss at sale time, then it was worth the loss to have a gun that better suited me for many years of shooting. If I am not absolutely sure I will keep it, I don't mess with the chokes.

I've never opened the chokes on but 3 guns. One I regret. Two I don't. The one I regret is a 32" barreled 12 ga. AH Fox. It was full and full, and it is now M X M. It was not original anyway, I reasoned, as it had been restocked and re-case-hardened. That gun should have stayed F X F. My 31 1/2" MX8 was originally a trap gun, high stocked and full choked. I changed the buttstock and opened the chokes to M X M. Excellent move for me. Ten years or so later I have never regretted it. The other is a 30" barreled BSS that I use to compete in S X S events and to hunt ducks. The right barrel was .018" and the left was full. I had the left opened up to the same as the right, .018". Great for steel shot and it will crush any bird you'll ever see in a S X S sporting course.

SRH

[quote=KY Jon]One reason I like doubles is that I can have two different chokes if I want them. But if I had to be limited to just one choke I could be happy with I/C or even Lt. Mod, but IM or full have less usefulness than more open chokes for my shooting needs. I think one proble with fixed chokes barrels are that too many of them are too tight for most people these days. That and pump guns are a tough sell these days because people who have never shot them think they are slow but I find I can pump faster than I can get back into target for a second or third shot. Not slow at all.



My newest acquisition is 26" barrel with fiexed IC choke and I would not want it any other way. This allows me to shoot best ammo HeviShot w/o fear of damage to gun steel. Life is grand.

I remember my Great Grand Pappy who lived on the banks of the South Forked Deer River saying "Boy with tight choked gun jest lettem git out a right smart ways fore you shoot".

He hunted with one gun and one choke from the 1890s until the 1960s.

modified....................

That "Let'em Get Outta Ways" only works when you're in open terrain.
there are many, many situations where one simply does not have that option.

If spreader loads are in the mix, then a full choked gun works for me. Non spreader (or spreader) load for waterfowl, spreader load for upland, particularly in a sixteen gauge. Spred'r hand loads are very easy to make, and components easy to acquire.

I think I'll go back and read Ted's post where he blames spreader loads for the action of an idiot who pointed a shotgun at a dog and pulled the trigger. I must have missed something.

I'm pretty certain if he had pointed the gun AT the dog, it wouldn't have ended as well.

Go back and read it anyway. Spreader loads do spread.

Best,
Ted

There can be, and are, extreme flyer pellets from every type of lead shotgun load made. It being a spreader load is not a requirement, nor is it a guarantee, that there will be extreme flyers. Anyone who does no know this has never done extensive patterning, or has just forgotten it. To blame a spreader load for a hunting dog getting hit by a stray pellet is ignoring the real problem ..... the person behind the trigger.

Thinking that a load of hundreds of tiny pellets will react in anywhere near a predictable pattern is a recipe for misplaced confidence. One just does not take chances with the safety of man's best friend by shooting anywhere near close by.

SRH

There are no promises, but, the day it happened, as I played the whole thing back in my very angry-at-the-moment mind, I was pretty sure it wouldn't have happened with a conventional round in the customer's gun. It was a longish shot on a grouse on an even longer point, going directly away.

I may be wrong. But, I don't think I am.

What surprises me about the discussion, here, today, is you both missed the most important fact, or, at least didn't mention it.

I don't guide anymore.


Best,
Ted

Stan you hit it with a stray pellet....spreader load smeder load.

I was patterning an extremely tight shooting turkey gun at 40 yards and had a can of spray paint lying on the ground a good 10 yards to the side of the target. I had probably made 10 or 15 shots when all of the sudden a stray pellet hit the can and let all my paint out.

Don't confuse him with facts, jOe. If you haven't ever seen it, it's hard to believe ..... but, it happens. All the time.
SRH

I'm with Ted on this one. I don't use spreader loads, just in case. 25 years ago a dog caught a pellet in the lung on a hunt I was on from another hunter, you know the result. I didn't touch my shotgun to hunt or shoot clays for almost a year.
Facts about spreaders can be debated forever, but once you witness such a thing you NEVER forget. If anything, it has made me overly cautious around dogs, if that's possible. After all these years, I can still see that terrible moment.
Karl

For instance . . . most grouse and woodcock hunting. Someone once said that especially for woodcock, no choke is often more than you need. Of course you always need to pattern to see what your particular choke/load combination will produce. But going by "the book" on patterns, cylinder should give you a 70% pattern at 25 yards. I've shot a whole lot of woodcock, but darned few further away than 25 yards. And a bunch a whole lot closer.

Oh I can buy the "stray pellet" theory. Thing is, the incident of which I speak featured 7-9 of them. I would like to know precisely what happened that day, but, neither of us could see the black and tan setter, or, the grouse, until he had about 20 feet of elevation, out of some very dense cover. The dog could have been on point with the bird pinned between him and us. It was not uncommon for that dog to point birds 20-30 yards away in dense cover.


Did the load strike a tree or branch shortly out of the muzzle? Was there a problem with the load itself? The angle of the shot taken would have seemed to preclude anything on ground level being hit, but, there you have it.
Facts were hard to come by, in hindsight.

The actual facts that were, and, are today available are pretty much limited to a spreader in 16 gauge was used, and a dog was struck.
Once was enough for me. I own no spreaders at this point, but, I have some guns with little or no choke in them.

No issues with dogs or people taking pellets since, which, is a good thing.

Larry, I haven't shot many woodcock at 25 yards, either. Getting to be a pretty small target past that.


Best,
Ted

Ted/Karl:

I'd never heard that about spreader loads, but it's good to know.

some would call that meager but WTF do they know?


have another day
Dr.WtS

They do look pretty darned small further out than that, for sure. Likely worse with my aging eyesight. Young guy like you, Ted . . . you can't use that excuse . . . yet.

Oh my God it's a wonder you survived...

I don't use spreader loads nor do I ever figure I will....I've never been involved in a hunting accident but I do know when any accident happens the parties at fault are all looking for a way out.

I was quail hunting with a group of hunters and as one of them approached the pointing dog he had his gun pointed right at the dog....I suggested he might do better if he raised his gun up over the dogs but he went right back to doing it. The owner of the dogs/father in law to the man never said a word to him. I tried to watch and see if he had his safety off but couldn't ever tell but this guy could have easily shot the dog.

Bottom line....some idiots shouldn't be around guns or dogs.

Back to the original question...

I just bought a pair of Winchester 101's a 20 and a 12 both with 3" chambers and 30" full and full choke barrels. Fact is choking and barrel length was the deciding factor.

A couple of Christmas seasons ago, I got an invite to hunt on some property about 2 hours from here loaded with quail. When I arrived, there were two other dogs that I expected to see but unexpectedly enough gunners for a dove hunt. After watching a young man with a "Go Pro" on his gun sweep the dogs, I crated my MuttPak, said my good-byes and headed home.

If you were here, Joe, I'd say you've chosen for geese or sea ducks. There, turkey.

We lost a friend and bird guide here in Maryland a couple or three years ago. In my humble opinion, the gun was pointed at him. That's how these things happen. No one gets seven or nine pellets in him unless the gun was pointed at him. google "marvin coppage" to read about this unfortunate event. Fourteen year old with an idiot for a father was the shooter.

IC for me. It is effective for about everything.