doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com FFL transfer protocol

Good for Fourth Armory. amen

Where do the regulations require a photo copy of the buyer's drivers license?

If everyone played nice and actually put a copy of their Valid state D/L or some other form of official State or Federal ID w/ Picture in with the firearm that you can read,,that would be a good step.
Trying to get the needed information after the delivery is near impossible, and there you sit as the FFL with a firearm in your lap w/no ID to show where it came from. The mailing lable doesn't cut it in an ATF compliance check.

You can't just send it back to the mailing address either as that requires an FFL at that end if out of state. ,,,and who's going to pay for that shipping. Mean time the customer of yours is standing there wanting 'his' gun but you can't transfer it to him.

You could enter the gun in your book as a 'repair' and then send it back to the same address,,that's legal to do IF it were true. But it isn't. Making false entrys in your bound book is a felony. Wanna take a chance? I'm sure no one ever though of that trick before...

If it does come with proper ID/DL, great,, log it in. Call your customer. He comes down, takes one look at the gun and says, 'Nah, I don't want it'.
Now what does the FFL do?
I can't send it back to the person who sent it as they are not an FFL,,same problem as above even if your customer has agreed to pay for the return trip/3 day insp/refusal.
So are you as the FFL supposed to find an FFL in the sellers state and secure a lic copy from them to send the gun to so it can be sent there and then transfered to the orig seller,,was that part of the deal,,is that on my free time?

That's why most FFL's simply say, accepted from another FFL only.

They are wrong in that the law does not require FFL to FFL, but I can see why they are shy

I have run into the same problem. I was able to find a local FFL who will work with me on shipments from Non FFLs as long as they are vintage long guns. I guess he feels less threatened by potential issues on old collector stuff versus black guns. That and he knows me after numerous transactions.

Problem is that you are all thinking of reasonable people doing sane and reasonable things in gun sales. Ask your dealer have they ever had a bad buyer or bad transfer? What if the transfer is declined by BATF? You can't make it into a straw man purchase. The stories they could tell you would make you think half their customers are morons. Then they get caught in the middle. How much crap would you put up with for 25-50 dollars? Not much I am betting.

Dealers just want a clear pathway to return a gun and get it off their books. They want a legit DL in case the gun later turns out to be stolen. The seller is on the hook for return shipping. My dealer logs the guns in, then has me fill out the form. He calls it in and only then do I get the gun. End of transaction one. If you want to return it that's transaction two. He does not charge me for the second but I rarely, almost never, send anything back and have bought a lot of guns. But how would you like to have some squirrel send every gun back. You have to repackage them. You have to setup shipping. You need to get a clean return FFL. So even if I don't like it I can see the need for FFL to FFL shipping.

All of this extra hassle and double-dipping by dealers doing transfers is absurd. You just need to find an FFL dealer who is willing to comply with the law as written, and quit giving business to those who are using lame excuses to pick your pockets.

This goes double for guys who insist on doing FFL transfers for known Antiques.

I simply make damn sure to let any seller know they must include a legible photocopy of their Drivers License when they ship the gun, or it will be returned at their expense. I don't know if there is an actual requirement to have the seller provide a copy of a Drivers License, but it does make sense to simply have a paper trail if a gun turns out to be stolen. The FFL has no more assurance that a gun shipped to him was not stolen than if it came across his counter face-to-face. Having an FFL at both ends of the transaction does nothing to assure that the gun isn't stolen either.

A couple years ago, a seller shipped a new Marlin 1895 .45-70 without including the copy of his license. The FFL simply held the gun until the seller faxed the copy of his Drivers License. I had to wait one extra day to take possession. Big deal. The FFL I use now usually charges me $25.00, but sometimes does it for less. Time to shop around if you are getting clipped for $40 or $50 at each end. Use your head people.

Please note in my above post I confined my remarks to someone what has a C&R FFL. I'd be somewhat leery of dealing interstate with someone without at least that just for the reasons Kutter pointed out.
IMO: There is no good reason for an 01 FFL to refuse to deal with a person with a C&R FFL on an eligible firearm.
Jim

Damn, and here I was almost prepared to believe gun buyers and sellers were a bit different from the public at large; just goes to show you how daft I am

Jeremy

It's nice when people do all the things they are supposed to do,,, send correct documentation, readable copys, licenses that are up to date, answer emails and the phone, followup when they say they will,,stuff like that.
But when you get stuck with a couple firearms as a FFL, with no documentation included with them, promises of 'getting it right out to you' never materialize, or worse yet emails or phone calls go unanswered, then you'll know why some FFLs only want to deal with another FFL.
Getting stuck in the middle of a few transactions for the precious $25 with a customer demanding 'his' gun at this end, and a ghost seller at the other end of which I have no ID for and no contact with isn't worth the effort anymore.
..and I can't just send the gun back to the return address label address COD,,I need an FFL to send it to. That's the regs.

I agree that the issue of ffl to ffl somehow offers some degree of protection against the gun being stolen is false. A few states do run the firearms ser# during their State equivalent of the NICS check. But that'd only show a gun as stolen at the time of sale to a non-FFL, like when you are transfering that gun to your customer.

If you've got a friendly, helpful FFL,,do your best to keep them!
Sounds like you have a good one..

In the aforementioned case where the seller neglected to send a copy of his Drivers License, it was absolutely no problem for the FFL I was using to do the transfer. The gun was bought and paid for by me. The FFL simply said he would have to hold the gun until the seller sent or faxed a copy of his Drivers License. It was entirely my problem and my responsibility to get the required documentation. This is also part of my reason for paying for my internet gun purchases with a U.S. Postal Money Order. If my purchase should end up being stolen or if the seller refuses to comply with the law, I'll let the Postal Inspector handle the mess when it becomes mail fraud. The only responsibility the FFL has is to complete a legal transfer. I expect no more and no less.

My current FFL guy is a gem, but not quite as good as the previous one who charged me nothing. Oh, when I smoked, he would charge me a cigarette or two because his wife didn't allow him to smoke.