doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DIY Gunsmithing @ doublegunshop.com Rust Blueing Help

The William powell barrels are fluid steel but they�ve been sleeved so I�m guessing two types of metal are going to be at play here. Mind you, the original black has no different shades to it, so they must be similar

JMH

When you do your Powell, I'd go to 500-600, and skip burnishing with the pad.

Ken

Go to Brownell and get there classic rust blueing, follow there instruction , Strip blueing in a pvc pipe 4in with cap on 1 end
dilute acid 50-50 with water,that will strip the blueing in 10 second, rinse well Polish with scotch brite pads ,wipe down with automotive type cleaner that has no petroleum product in it,apply rust blueing , My cabinet I keep 60% humidity and 70 deg
let rust for 3 hrs, boil and card with Brownells stainless steel
4 row wire brush,slow speed , Full strength 1-2 application
dilute as you proceed Less messy thann mixing chemicals

I would just like to add something to the discussion I have found over the many years I have been bluing and browning gun barrels. On guns made some 30 years before 1900 and up to the 1950s, barrel rust blueing always went well and with very little trouble even with changing rusting solutions. Then after the 1950s steel used in barrels started to have small amounts of Chrome Nickel and Cobalt added to name just a few, this started to cause me problems and the need to change rust bluing solutions to make things happen correctly. Though I did find that one bluing solution worked well every time and it stayed that way until I hung up the rubber gloves and let the younger generation take up the art of bluing and browning.
The bluing solution is named after the American gunsmith Hervey lovell it can be found in Angier's under rapid bluing solutions though it uses enough Mercuric Chloride in its makeup to kill an Elephant.

The best instructions I have seen for rust bluing are in Dunlap's "Gunsmithing" book starting on page 388, called "The Niedner Cold Blue".
Beautiful, tough finish. No Mercuric Chloride. Seems to work on all steels: mild steel, 4140, heat treated 4340, even casehardened steel.
Granted some react faster than others. Follow instructions or it will etch the steel.
Chuck

Thanks for the replies.

Little update, sorted out some scrap barrel ribs to use as some test pieces and I�ve managed to get 3 passes on them so far. So far it seems they still want to develop a good coating of rust on the 3rd application, which is better than the last test pieces. Colour is still a greyish/ slightly black. I�m guessing it�s going to need at least 6 passes but I�ll wait and see.

I can only get the laurel mountain forge barrel brown and degreaser over here. The uk website of brownells doesn�t seem to sell the classic rust blue. Does anyone know the makeup of it? Might already be one Angiers recipes under a different name.

I have been toying with the idea of trying a formula with mercuric chloride in but the stuff scares me as I�ve read how toxic it can be and I have no training or understanding how to handle the stuff safely. Is the recipe your writing about Damascus on page 72 Ac6 Express Brown? Its got a foot note concerning H. Lovell and if so, it has got quite alot of mercuric chloride in it. I have looked for it and you can buy it here in the uk. Sort of tempted to try it if nothing else works.

If im not mistaken the Niedner formula is just aqua regia with iron in. I will give it a go on a test piece once I�ve mixed it up. Still sticking with ferrobronze at the moment.

Last question, has anyone had trouble with their solution because the chemicals they�ve bought have not been up to a certain quality. The copper sulphate and ferrous sulphate I�ve bought are technical grade only, which is quite low on the different grades of chemical you can buy.

JMH

JMH,
I'm sorry I missed the fact that you live in the UK. I suggest you take a small holiday, drive to the German gunsmith, nearest you, and see if you can acquire some of the German solution from him, or at least find a source for it. This is what I use, having brought it with me when I moved back from Germany. It usually gives good color with 3 or 4 applications. Alabama is not bothered by too cold weather, or too low humidity, though. Don't leave it overnight, at least boil it. You can card it later. BTW the solution comes in 1 liter containers.
Mike

This site provides the original recipe for Niedner blue and also the cautions when mixing it.
http://www.nationalgunforum.com/general-gun-discussion/24589-niedner-cold-rust-blue.html

I will jump in here and comment on the OPs original concerns and say that if you want an easy to use solution that will get you deep black color look no farther than Mark Lees express blue. In my opinion, once you use it, you wont want to use anything else.

A set of barrels can be done in 4-5 hours. That is start to finish. The boiling tank never cools down. And that is with running around 8 cycles.

But if you want to do it old fashioned and mix your own, then the above is not for you.

I would agree with the Mark Lee express altho I've never used any thing elso, so have nothing to compare to. The only problem I've had was with an overpolished old revolver and I had to roughen it a bit. As a complete amateur, I've had excellent results in blueing worn areas only and in applying it over existing blueing. Always seems to blend in well.