doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What is an antique firearm?

he is Brian not Bill

look at the antique FAQs on the safe act site

https://safeact.ny.gov/gun-owners


if you ask any government employee if they regulate something - the answer is invariably yes - correctly or not

I remember reading this a while ago, I think the questions is whether or not you want to expend the countless sums on litigating second amendment rights:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/broo...rticle-1.426098

federal law is pretty clear...if it was made prior to 1899, it is an antique...however, many responsible ffl dealers (myself included) are reluctant to ship cartridge firing firearms to unknown individuals and prefer to utilize the services of a local ffl dealer for background check, in an effort to keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of dangerous people...

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&a...+of+antique.gun

As I said, antique long guns are actually NOT strictly acknowledged. As such, they fall under normal long gun transfer rules. Theres no issue with OWNING them...where is gets dicey is people thinking they are free to ship and receive them without FFL transfer.

As for the SAFE Act website, be VERY careful assuming the quick shot responses they make there are correct. The number of items that have "evolved" since the law was hastily passed is incredible. You need to rest of what the legal code actually says...NOT some bureaucrat interpretation of what it means. That wont hold up in court.

My point here is...the whole issue is actually a grey area. It could well depend upon a given judge as to which way he interprets.

- Nudge

when in doubt...insist on a background check...that way one will sleep better...

Ed Good,

This isnt about the Federal law, which is clear.

As for your taking it upon yourself to decide your judgement supercedes the law...what if my pharmacist decided they didnt want to give me my medication because they dont know me? Just because someone is not known to you, doesnt mean they arent entitled to a presumption of good character.

Do you think small town cops should be allowed to kick strangers out of town? Just because they dont know them? "Oh I dont know, better just be on the safenside and boot them from the roadside cafe and send them on their way."

Laws exist to set a fair baseline of safety. Anything interpretive betond this is boumd to be abused, precisely because good judgement isnt known to be any thicker with gun dealers...than with gun buyers.

BTW, gun control people are always trying to get the upper hand by way of oh-so-reasonable means of nullifying people's right. This has brought us such creative nuggets as the last adminstration attempting to curtail the gun rights of returning soldiers. Oh and dont forget waiting periods. Those are so "reasonable." Nope, theyre just as likely to keep.the.gun out of a victims hand, as it is the aggressor.

- Nudge

You are not correct as it relates to FEDERAL law - your STATE law may vary. Antique firearms are transferable to individuals without an FFL.

Here's what ATF says about antique firearms - even FELONS can have them - the full document is here - https://www.atf.gov/file/61721/download - short version below (emphasis mine):

"1. Can a person prohibited by law from possessing a firearm acquire and use a black powder
muzzle loading firearm?
The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) prohibits felons and certain other persons from possessing or
receiving firearms and ammunition (�prohibited persons�). These categories can be found at 18
U.S.C. � 922(g) and (n) in http://atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf.
However, Federal law does not prohibit these persons from possessing or receiving an antique
firearm. The term �antique firearm� means any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock,
flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898. The
definition includes any replica of an antique firearm if it is not designed or redesigned for using
rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or uses rimfire or conventional centerfire
ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States, and which is not readily available
in ordinary channels of commercial trade.

FlyChamps,

This whole sidebar conversation is about NY State law...not Federal.

I never intended to hyjack the OP, but it appears I.may have.

- Nudge

I've dealt with some auction houses that require the gun to go through a FFL because they can not definitively prove that the gun was made prior to 1898 due an absence of records that have disappeared as has happened to many English makers.

I can't blame an individual seller or auction house that chooses to CYA rather then risk having a chat with local or Federal law enforcement.

Unfortunately that happens and as you say they can't be blamed. Not much to be done in that case other than proceed through the full FFL process. With regards to records there are occassional guns I don't pursue because I can't find records that would "prove" to the ATF or other parties the age of the gun. Generally I find that if the maker is listed in Brown's Vol. 1 - 3 , then I've been able to get either an ATF sign off or import as an antique. I've found ATF also accepts published articles on gunmakers covering model ages. Not much help if a third party is insistent but it might be helfpful for those that can be persuaded.

As an aside, permitting and antique/curio&relics designation and permits are is something the exporters I use in the UK generally check as they seem to require it be confirmed as part of their export permitting regardless of the designation in the UK. A decade ago some would just ship an antique direct but no longer. Paperwork is now required but in the long term is just a hassle not a problem. Funny to sign off on official declarations that I will not use the guns in the assembly of nuclear weapons, as if anyone smuggling such material would be honest, but that's the way it is. Oddities occur for instance with the purchase of damascus barrels which are still handled as "firearms" in the UK with the requisite RFD transfers required.

Jeremy