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#471475 02/04/17 11:16 AM
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I've seen this designation applied to Darnes on the different gun-list sites over the years. Sometimes the gun is clearly an R10, and I sort of assumed they were the same thing. Gunbroker has an small-key Darne listed as a "Type 10," and it's clearly not an R10 http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/618729254 . It has quite a bit of engraving but lacks the chisseled fences of higher-end R or V model Darnes. The stock also differs from the R-series in lacking the oval carvings in the wood below and in front of the receiver. This stock more similar to the Darne Halifax. Based on the serial # 3PXXX this looks like a pre-War gun.

A search of Naturabuy.fr turned up a few Type 10 Darnes.
http://www.naturabuy.fr/Fusils-Juxtaposes-Darne-Type-10-critere-581628.html
They're all selling for well under the $2K+ opening bid on Gunbroker!

Anyone have any experience with this model?

Bill

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Bill,
The gunbroker gun clearly IS a Darne R10, that, unfortunately, ended up as someone's engraving project. The R10 was a loss leader, plain and simple, and never had more than a bit of line work at the monobloc seam, post WWII. A few pre war guns will be seen with some light line work, pre war in this case is pre WWI, and those guns will be bone pack case hardened, not cyanide hardening that came later.
The engraver missed a few spots, like, the entire watertable. That gun has been for sale for years, and will be for sale at that price for a long time. Coupled with the engraving that doesn't belong there is the fact the gun has a 13 5/8 LOP, shorter than average for even an old Darne.
If I needed R10 parts, I might offer him $250 for it, but, I'd likely keep looking for one that hadn't been tampered with.
$250 might be too generous for a gun with a breechbloc that was pretty much unusable.
12 gauge R10s are 1k-$1500 or so, at the moment, higher for examples with crisp trigger pulls, which, people are starting to look for on old Darnes. 20 Gauge R10s start around $1500, super good condition with good trigger pulls will bring 2K-$2500.
France, French hunters, and the firearms industry in France are in upheaval right now. Comparisons on prices, here, vs there, will do little good, at the moment.

Best,
Ted

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Thanks Ted.

Something definitely seemed out of place with that gun. Well, a few things, not least the optimistic pricing.

Cheers,

Bill

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He'll never sell that bumper jack at that price...

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Bill,
We have no way of knowing what was done to the sliding breech before it became someones engraving project. Was it annealed? I doubt you can engrave a curved surface without annealing cyanide case hardening. Was it disassembled? Who did that work? Was it re-hardened after it was engraved?
You might think the "parts gun" comment is too harsh, but, it really isn't. We have no way of knowing what was done, and, if it will hold together if it is shot.
I have seen Darne guns that have been blued (they were never blued at the factory) where the entire sliding breech went into the blue tank without being disassembled. The results were a disaster.
There was a single model of Francisque Darne, built post WWII, that was factory blued. I've never seen one. I have a catalog picture of one.
But, I have seen too many blued R10s over the years.
Don't buy them.

The front stock on an R10 USUALLY looks just like the one on a Halifax. Usually. But, you could get whatever you wanted, and I do have an R10 that has the typical graded R front wood. I suspect it was ordered as a heavy gun, as it has longer, heavy wall barrels, with tight chokes, full ribs top and bottom (not typical on an R10), sling swivels, and the butt stock is not hollowed, the only R10 I've ever seen with that treatment. Someone went out of their way to spec it like that, but, I don't know who or why.





As Darnes go, this one is big.


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Ted

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Ted,

Thanks for sharing the pic & info on the big R10. Do you know the weight? I've actually been looking to see if any Darne 12s on the market top the 6.5-pound mark. Have not seen any with weights listed that high, though I've found several below 6#, triple proofed for modern loads. I guess that's a testament to the strength of the action and maybe to the French capacity to absorb punishment.

Bill

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Bill,
It is about 7 lbs. When I was importing them, I had a Bruchet produced demonstrator R16, 3" magnum 12 with 31 1/2" tubes that was closer to 8 pounds. But, that is, of course, the exception. A lot of the sales literature from the Stoeger and James Wayne era promotes the short barrel/light gun ideas that were all the rage with some gun writers of the time. If you look at the photos in the 1965 Shooters Bible of Roger Barlow, shooting his custom Darne, you will see his gun was a big 12, with a factory fitted beavertail and long tubes. But, the article promotes light guns with short barrels.
The average French hunting trip will involve hunting more than one species, and a lot of walking, way more walking than shooting. I could see a light load of shot in the open barrel for a woodcock or hickory grouse, and a heavier load of 3s or 4s for hares, foxes, capercallies, or small pigs in the other. The heavy proof would cover what you needed to get done, and French proof was, by law, the heaviest in Europe.

Most of the Darne guns that were imported here were not custom ordered with specifications regarding user fit, they were simply what the importers thought would sell. And that is truly a pity, a Darne, perhaps more so than any other design, needs to fit the user well.

Take your time, grasshopper. Easier to buy than to sell, and you want the right gun.


Best,
Ted

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Originally Posted By: billwolfe
http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/618729254 .

Anyone have any experience with this model?

Bill


My advice on these make sure you handle and operate one before putting any money down. The case-colored field grade you referred above is $1000+/-100 gun. Typical hunter in Europe will pick modern vertical barrel Beretta or Miroku over one of those any day. I would say the only premium game gun with different mechanism would be European O/U with side opening lever. I would pay premium over one made either in Belgium or England.

English would be John Dickson & Son, Edingburgh in North England or Zenith gun by Robert Churchill, London. The European variety was called Superbritte and was is? made in Belgium. Griffin & Howe usually has couple to took at if you're interested.

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PJ,
He owns one. He is familiar with the design. The gun referenced above, that you linked to, is junk, for the reasons I already detailed. It is not a $1000 gun. It may not be a $100 gun.

Some of the "case colored field grades" as you refer to them will sell for much, much more than $1000. I know of a matched pair of 28 gauge, long barreled R10s with .410 second barrels, that $1000 wouldn't buy the French case they were supplied in.

You can be disappointed in a Darne for far less money than a John Dickson or a SuperBritte. Do you live in a parallel universe? For a guy who has beer and weiners guns that he actually owns (Ithaca 37, riot version, was it not?) you sure post about champagne level guns.

Do tell us about your Dickson or SuperBritte guns you have owned.


Best,
Ted

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Bill:

I have a 12 gauge Darne P-19 (yes, a P model finished to grade 19, which was a surprise to me, too) that weighs 6 pounds 12 ounces on the nose. It has 30 inch barrels, a straight stock and a splinter style forend. Nicely balanced and fun to shoot.

Rem

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