doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Weight of my N.I. D.?

JohnE, insightful commentary and questions; thanks.

The gun by itself is a static object with weight (measured), balance (measured), and moment of inertia at center of gravity (measured). Weight tells us the required effort to lift and carry. Balance (CG) tells us how the weight can be divided between the hands. MOI at CG tells us the effort necessary to change the direction the gun is pointing Before the gun is mounted (held in the hands), the MOI at CG is the best indicator of effort to change the direction of point. Depending on hand placement, it may not be exact for individual shooters, but it does tell us about the gun. When mounted to the shoulder, the axis of rotation shifts to, more or less, the shooters spine. Since we have no way to account for shooter physiology, we have to stay with properties of the gun itself. The best number is the MOI at butt which is calculated from MOI at CG via the parallel axis theorem. All numbers are gun properties (how the gun itself is) and do not account for shooter differences.

To use this information, a shooter must learn learn how it relates to him/her; just as is needed with stock fit. Once learned, it is repeatable. Again, as with stocking, you may want differing numbers for differing purposes.

Questions?

DDA

I may have one of the heaviest 26-inch barrel NID 2 3/4 inch 12-gauges out there at 8 pounds 3.5 ounces. It is a fully optioned No. 4E Skeet Gun --





The boys at Fall Creek Water Power Lot #6 must have taken the heaviest pair of tubes they could find and didn't strike an ounce off them to make the barrels of this gun.

Researcher, I can lift this burden from your life if you will permit me.

Researcher, what is the distance from balance point to trigger? That will give us some further idea of how much is in the barrels and in the stock/action.

Walt's live is already overburdened. Take me, take me. ;-)



DDA

Walt what are you going to do after you collect ever nice looking Ithaca gun? You must have a plan, as you are nearing cornering the market. I suspect that you flip through the order books to see if you have missed any. You have to leave a few for others to play with. Just a few of the crumbs.

I have already UPSed them to a future address in my name-a place where gun safes are not needed. Lou is looking after them until get there. I have tried to buy this butt ugly over weight NID from Researcher before without success.

My 2 current NID 12 gauge skeet guns ( I have a third 5E being restocked-hope I live long enough to see it). The top gun is a field grade ejector with factory upgraded grade 5 wood. It weighs 8 pounds one ounce. An identically optioned gun with field grade wood weighs 7 pounds two ounces. Both are choked S-S and are clay killers when I put their barrels in the correct place.
What a difference wood can make! The beaver tail FE also add some.

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OK, we have a skeet gun. Howz about a trap configuration?

Ithaca NID 4E BLE Trap #457465 SST w/ CSMC 1 1/2"pad + 5/8" spacer 12 gauge 32" bbls, 15 5/8" LOP: weight = 9# 2 oz, balance = 5 1/2", unmounted = 2.95, mounted = 11.73, compactness = 12.24

Heavy, forward balance, and slow mudder.

DDA

My No. 4E Skeet Gun balances about 1 1/4 inch in front of the hinge pin. Plenty of forward momentum to keep my swing going. Still, in my opinion, Ithaca's S & S chokes are way too tight for skeet distances, as are the WS-2 barrels of Winchester Model 21 Skeet Guns. In my younger years I ran enough 100 straights in NSSA competition with whacked barrel, Simmons Ribbed, Model 12s in 12- and 20-gauge to be firmly convinced you "don't need no stinkin' choke" for skeet.

Just for grins I weighed my 4E NID which has a montecarlo stock. I used digital bathroom scales with a 25 lb bag of shot to provide additional weight. I realize these weights may not be as accurate as others but they are reproducible. The bag of shot weighed a reproducible 24.9 lbs.

Weight of receiver and stock 4.0 lbs

Weight of 32 inch barrels (5E grade VR) with beavertail forearm 4.6 lbs

Weight of 30 inch (4E VR) barrels with a different beavertail forearm 4.2 lbs

Weight of 28 inch (4E VR) barrels with forearm from 30 inch barrels 4.7 lbs

These results were surprising to me as I anticipated the the weight would decrease with barrel length.

Thus:

4E with 32 inch barrels 8.6 lbs

4E with 30 inch barrels 8.2 lbs

4E with 28 inch barrels 8.7 lbs

Please no flames as to my methodology I earned my keep as a PhD level chemist and I somewhat understand how to weigh; although never anything so heavy. Since the results are reproducible then it seems to me that there is a large variation in barrel weights. Both the 28 inch and the 30 inch barrels and both forearms are original to the gun and so marked.

jlb