doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lead ammo ban

I believe you are right in terms of the lead ban and other regulations on hunting and trapping.

Here is a link to two NY Times eagle articles. Interesting reading. They make the idea of a lead shot ban to protect eagles seem absurd.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/01/15/us/ap-us-bold-eagles.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/magazine/bald-eagle-national-burden.html

I disagree it is a dead horse. There are holes in the logic of the danger of lead and the volume of lead. While I agree the reintroduction of lead for general and unrestricted use on waterfowl is not going to happen there are holes that can be reasonably exploited.

Already most if not all see that use in the uplands where concentrations do not occur are not at issue.

Current law prohibits it for waterfowl everywhere even though there are many situations where the accumulation of lead and ingestion by waterfowl is not an issue.

Current law allows use of lead on non waterfowl species where upland and waterfowl species overlap and science has not shown that to be the major issue it appeared to show waterfowling with lead was.

From these points I show that some lead (very limited) is not a major waterfowl issue and I posit that the limited authorization of use of lead for waterfowl harvest is possible without creating the significant damage to waterfowl.

The issue of what enforceable restricted use of lead on waterfowl could be made is actually out there. Rateher than diver this thread I will start another.

Stan,
Bald eagles are well known to have different digestive physiology than just about any other avian predator. They have unusually high acid content in the digestive tract, the theory is it developed in response to the eagles penchant for eating carion, when available, as a way to protect the birds gut while consuming spoiled meat. Owls seem to be almost impervious to lead poisoning, by way of comparison.
It makes Bald Eagles more sensitive to lead in the environment.
THAT SAID, nobody has been able to demonstrate that using lead ammunition has hurt eagle populations in the last 50 years.
I'm all for good science, and not knee jerk regulation.

Best,
Ted

That is very interesting, Ted. Thanks.

I'm somehow not surprised that owls are somewhat immune to lead poisoning. My experiences with Great Horned Owls have caused me to believe that they are some kinda tough critters. They are far above a big Red-tailed Hawk in terms of hunting ability and flying strength. I have seen, oft times, a mature redtail catch a rabbit, in the middle of a corn field I was harvesting, and attempt to carry the rabbit to the edge of the field to eat. It can barely fly, and will only be able to get a few feet above the ground with it's catch. OTOH, a big owl can catch a rabbit sized animal and fly in a very steep climb to the top of a tall nearby tree with it.

My apologies if this is too far off topic. I'll hush.

SRH

Here is a link to additional information about species that are immune to lead poisoning:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4961898/

In the last 50 years, there's been a veritable explosion in the eagle population: From only a few hundred breeding pairs to the current five figure level. Unfortunately, although we usually focus on wildlife as a species, the bald eagle is a separate case. Highly visible, our national symbol. And obviously, because there are so many more of them these days--in places where they hadn't been seen in a very long time--more sick birds will be found.

It would seem that woodcock also have a high tolerance for lead. Studies have shown that the lead in their systems far exceeds the level that would be fatal to waterfowl. Of course in the case of woodcock, it's particularly difficult to determine the source of the lead, given what and how they eat. If there's lead in the soil, since they probe for worms, it's quite likely they'll ingest lead. Analyzing the lead, researchers note that it COULD come from lead shot. But none of the birds examined in the study in question had any lead pellets in their digestive systems.

Grade school level pablum, wretched up with the purpose to grind a specific axe.

Note in the second paragraph, where lead is referred to as an "environmental chemical". This is a deliberate misdirection, that implies that humans manufacture lead, when, it is, of course, an element, found widely, and in the environment since before there were humans.

The article is filled with similar distortions, intended to mis-inform.


Best,
Ted

I hear tell eagles taste almost like chicken....

This statement is absolutely false, and just goes to prove that Grouse Guy Ben(the deer poacher) Deeble doesn't even read the anti-lead crap he dumps here.

But this is nothing new, because Ben has demonstrated in the past that he is too stupid and too agenda driven to digest the material he dumps here anyway.

This paper is not about species that are immune to lead poisoning. The subject is lead poisoning in humans. The only non-human species within this paper are where it attempts to compare lead toxicity in humans to the physiology of mice and rats.

Nice to have some unethical slob hunter who gets arrested for trespassing and shooting game out of season lecturing us about what ammo to use based upon links to papers he obviously has not even read.