doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Holland and Holland

Gents,
I would be interested in anything you could tell me about this gun.
Who may have made it, an idea of when and an approximate value in your neck of the woods.
It has already been suggested it's a Scott gun, if so what sort of premium would you expect to pay simply for the name?
I don't want to start a debate as to whether you should pay a premium, rather what you would expect the market would dictate.
For the purpose of the exercise we assume the gun is free from defect and the internals are in the same order as the exterior.
Thanks,
GDU.

Greg, I doubt it is a Scott since it has what appears to be a patent use number, 29,229. I'm not aware of Scott built guns having a use number on them. The licensing would be for the Scott top lever. It also has the Purdey under bolt, which Scott also licensed to all makers outside of London.

Nicely restored gun. I imagine a dealer would add 50% to 100% to his asking price over a similar less prestigious name. Hard to say and I hope others more knowledgeable will chime in. Would like to see more pictures.

Yes, it bears William Midleditch Scott's mark and the patent 2752 of 1865 refers to the top lever sometimes called a Scott Spindle. Don't think the number 29229 is anything to do with Hollands as that would be for the number sequence for the 'Royal' hammerless guns. The Scott sequence would put it at 1877; which is about right although the style of gun looks a little earlier. Do you have another number? Which would be a Holland number; maybe on the barrels or trigger guard. Could be that Scotts made the action and supplied it to Hollands or made the whole gun or the number is the patent use number making it the 29th. thousand or so made on that patent. A gun that I would be going over with a magnifying glass for little clues.

Beautiful gun and, in what appears to be, little used condition. Could do with a look at the Proof Marks on the barrels as a nitro re-proof would help the price up a bit although the action looks as if it is still black powder proof. Hollands should have more information as on the whole their records are mostly complete. Not going to hazard a value at this stage but good hammer guns are going for good prices in the U.K. Lagopus.....

loverly gon...

Wow, a round frame Holland and Holland. Am I correct in assuming that first teir round frame hammer guns of this type are a bit uncommon?

Champlin has one just like it for $8900

Yes, but it has sleeved barrels which would lower the price considerably for me.

I have the same "looking" Holland Hammer gun with ledger records and history, and is a " Royal". My barrels are sleeved. Serial number is 19832 and had steel as original barrels. Dated 1899.

So what tier do you think this gun is?

I rather suspect the case is not the original as it bears the date 1883 and I suspect the gun is older than that.

If your serial number is 6950... then it is 1881. There are gaps in sequences and some number sections may not have been used... see Dallas H&H book. The case may very well be the original case as the gun may not have left the shop, or case made for it , until two years later. Not unusual.

This is a close to the top class gun, very elegant.
I think that 1883 makes sense. For once, Holland & Holland was called as such starting in 1876.
N. Brown shows it as 1881, but a quick call to H&H will give you the answer.
Best regards,
WC-

Greg, sorry, but I can't give you any definitive value; just not enough comparables. I can say H&H is Brand Value one (BV1). I'm inclined to call Current Condition level at three (CC3 = significant use). Original Quality grade I'd place at "Best Work" to "A". Later hammerguns tend to grade like boxlocks. But I think this gun falls outside the "tend".

BV1-OQ3-CC3 = $10,936
BV1-OQ4-CC3 = $8,323
BV1-OQ5-CC3 = $6,296

Somewhere within that range. Hope that helps a little. I'd love to see comparables with known sale prices.

DDA

Can't tell for sure from the photos but I'd sure check out the firing pin holes for roundness and corrosion.

It is a nice tarted up hammer gun but unless the barrels and choking are something really special I don't see the gun being worth over 3 or 4 grande.

As a patent lasts for 16 years then that suggests the gun as made between 1865 and 1881 although the action could have been made prior to that before it was finished .The 29229 would be the registered action built under or using the patent so that would IMHO make it at the end of the patent period and from the style of the action I would estimate around 1880 .