doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com 30-30 double rifle project.

I have been fiddling away at this project for a little while and I figured I had enough material to post on it.

I picked up this gun back in September at an auction for the Bill Swarts estate. Bill was the barrel man and partner in the old Lefever Arms gunsmithing operation in Lee Center, NY. Bill had passed early last year (2016). In the auction was a lot of tools and parts as well as about 30 guns. I was not really looking to buy any guns at the auction, more the parts. But this one gun caught my eye. It was an unfinished project of Bill's. A double rifle built on a German 20g. ejector action. I assume the action was made by Sauer for a cottage maker. I had no idea what the caliber of the rifle was, but it looked to be .25 or .30cal just by looking at it. I ended up buying the gun for next to nothing since there was not really any other interest in it.

These photos show the condition of the gun as bought. There was a large muzzle spacer and blocky quarter rib with separate "hollow" rib in between and on bottom. The scope was affixed to the top of the rib and was not removable and obviously he never intended on having open sights on it. The tubes were rough turned still with everything soldered together. The extractors were built and the gun was finish chambered. I cast the chambers and ID'ed it as the common 30-30 Win. Not the most common choice for most double rifle builds, but great for North American hunting. And good because of the availability of shells for it.









I took the gun out and proofed it with some 45,000 psi hand loads and all went well. Then I shot it with some factory 170gr. big game loads and it was shooting all screwed up. About 8" apart at 50 yds and 14" apart at 100 yds. I would like to think that Bill regulated it, but i had no way of knowing for what since he was long passed.
I did not like the top rib setup on the barrels, so I figured since I was going to replace it anyway, it was not a big deal to re-regulate them. I knew the late Bob Hynden relatively well, so I conversed with him on the project and also bought a 24" 1pc. top rib from him for the gun.
I left the separate quarter rib on the barrels and removed everything else. This way I could do my regulation with the 4x scope that was on the gun. This helped a lot!
After some trips to the range and changing out the muzzle spacer after each firing, I got it dialed in nicely. See here the photos of 50 and 100yd targets.






I then installed a new lower rib to the barrel set once regulation was set. The new top rib is next to it.

I went to work striking down the rough turned barrels and getting them evened out so that there is no waviness in them when looking down the barrel set. This was much more easily done without the top rib on it. I also installed an additional block in-between the tubes for additional support in affixing a screw-on sling swivel mount.













I then started doing some initial machining on the top rib. I brought the quarter rib down to near level with the existing rib extension on the barrels. And did some profiling work on the front ramp to make it more attractive.
I will end up machining the quarter rib to directly accept a set of talley rings. And use a rear express sight as the recoil lug for them. Like Mr. Hynden liked to do. The photo below shows the initial mockup with a Leupold 1-4. But I am going to end up going with a Redfield Widefield 1-3/4 - 5x.











In it's current mocked up state with the Redfield scope it weighs 9 lbs. Not sure if there is any way to get the weight down any more than that. But that is not bad in my mind. I will end up restocking the gun and completely go over all finishes when said and done. Next task is finishing the machining of the top rib and get it soldered on.



Thanks for looking. I will update this thread as I can.

Sweet !
O.M

I like it! Looking forward to updates.

That looks like a great little deer blaster! Nice job.

Wow Dudley!!! Well done sir!

That is a great gun in one of my favorite chamberings.
What a great project, I wish I had anything close to the level of skill this took.
I will just have to stick with swamps.

Swampman

B. Dudley,
This project shows great work, as do your other projects, and I am happy you decided to show it to us. I look forward to seeing it completed.
Mike

Thanks for showing the project, and boy does that look like a nice shooter.

Brian, very interesting! I have a J.P.Sauer & Sohns model 12 Buchsflinte. I have the Krupp 16 ga barrel set, but the 16/9.3x74R barrel set is missing.Is it possible to make the missing set? If you would like to discuss, Email me. Not looking for a quick turn around but a few year project.
Best,
Craig

Well done, and a very interesting project. Looking forward to seeing more. Col. Townsend Whelen said "Only accurate rifles are interesting." I think he'd be very interested in the regulation of this one.

nicely done...not many gunsmiths working today can do that quality of double rifle work...a copy of ellis brown's book may be a value to you in your future double rifle projects...

http://www.bundukipublishing.com/doublerifle.htm

as for reducing the weight, next time make the barrels 20"...and 35 remington would be a good choice...with perhaps one of the 11 oz. leopold light weight scopes...

Who said i didnt already have Ellis Brown's book?

looking forward to hearing and seeing more about double gun conversion projects...

Very nice find! I had a 30-30 win double rifle made on a browning BSS 20 gauge action with 18 inch barrels a few years ago. I made this to carry while chasing bear dogs in the New Mexico mountains. It was light and easy to carry in rough country. When I sold the dogs to my hunting partner I also sold the little rifle to him as well. Wish I still had that handy little double, but he refuses to sell it back to me! I have another 20ga S/S now and am thinking of building another 30-30 double.

I haven't been on this website for some time and had not remember that I was once here till I tried to register and found that I was already registered. I'm 80 yrs old and am getting forgetful.
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Here is an update.
I got the machining on the rib done for the sights and scope mounts.

I decided to go with a simple dovetail setup for talley rings with the express sight acting as the recoil lug for the front scope mount. The rings drop down and slide forward and tighten with a quarter turn of the QD levers. The rear ring mounts right at the back of the rib and the existing rib extension on the barrels was thinned down enough to allow for the rear rings to drop down over it.
I did some ball mill cuts on the section of the rib in front of the express sight in order to style it some and match it to what I did on the front ramp.
I machined the front ramp with a 5mm dovetail for accepting a european style (push in from the front) sight.

Do you need a new best friend?

Tongue in cheek, of course. Beautiful work. I would love to have someone near with the tools and the talent.

Please continue with progress reports. I am smitten with the project.

The most important is the talent, I have the tools but there is no way I can do work like that.
Mike

Who did the work? Very nice work...

A description of how the project started is in the original post. I did everything else.

Bryan, did the barrel work after the initial regulating change the accuracy or POI ?

This project has taken a little of a back seat and has not been touched since i did the work on the top rib. I need to get it installed and shoot it again to see. I anticipate it may change a little, but not enough to cause a serious issue from a practical standpoint.

Hello B. Dudley,
I just found and read your 30-30 thread and it did bring back some good memories of Bob Hynden. He would be pleased to see your work on this project. I like the way you used the rib for the grooves for the Talley removable rings. As on my Simson .405 made by Bob, this keeps the scope close to the bores.
Also a good job with the regulation.

As an aside, I notice a marked similarity between your action and those of Merkel and Simson. Was your made in Suhl also?

Another benefit of compatibility with the Talley QR system is the Talley Peep Sight. Here is a pic of my Hynden/Simson .405 double rifle with the Talley peep installed:

The height above the rib is just right to see through the V of the express sight, so the peep was immediately useable without adjustment.
Link to Talley site: http://www.talleymanufacturing.com/Products/Scope-Ring-Bases-Peep-Sight/Peep-Sight.aspx

First shot at 100 yards went into the bulls eye.:


If you are interested, I can provide more information.

It is a Suhl gun.

Bob did a 20g slug gun for me with the same scope mounting setup, so that is where i took it from. My top rib blank came from him. We had a good amount of communication back and forth on this rifle. Right up through the regulation. It was at that time that he passed.

I ordered a Chapuis SXS 28 ga and on a whim added a 30-30 barrel set. It has a scope but I mostly use a little Doctor red dot. What a nice setup and at 6-3/4 lb, my lightest DR. It was regulated with 160 gr Hornady Ammo and shoots it just fine!