doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Charles Daly - Lindner? Date?

Pretty good premise I'd say. The preponderance of evidence suggest that @ the onset, Daly sourced in the white articles & as sales commenced/pickedup/continued & to increase profit margins, Daly bypassed Scott and went to either Scott's sourced for locks or dangled a quid in front of the mechanic who was souring lock components. Remember, Daly went to Birmingham to source his wares but none were willing to manufacture akin to Daly's whims.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Perhaps positioning of the lock through-bolt is indicative? The earlier guns have it forward of the hammer, later ones behind. Could this indicate a change in sourcing? This raises another issue, were the locks still being sourced from England from perhaps a Wolverhampton source, or was Lindner able to source
them locally by that time?

Perhaps Lindner always sourced these hammer gun actions from England, and never had a local source?

Regards
Ken

Yeah, Wolverhampton source & for the 1870s Germany continued to want to be British so I'd say Birmingham was still sourced. Georg Lindner may not have sourced locks from an inland source & so we would need to look toward the serial numbers and see which Lindner serial number wears the control stamp of Crossed Sidearms surmounted by a crown.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

This is making more sense to me, so I'll throw out a historical hypothetical and see if it sticks.

In the early 1870's the Northeast really just had Grouse and Waterfowl for bird hunting. This was before the pheasant was widely introduced. Grouse Hunters would prefer a lighter gun, an English sidelock or A&D gun, rather than a heavy 10ga. It appears to me that Daly (at that time) was really looking to produce a Wildfowling gun, suitable for Brant on the Delmarva or Canvasback on the Chesapeake. Since the English did produce this type of action for their Wildfowling guns, it's natural for Daly/Lindner to source the actions there.

German tastes at that time trended towards lighter action guns, Lefauchex and Jones Underlever being popular. Having trudged up and down a few German mountains in my time, this makes sense. I don't recall seeing any of these 10ga guns being produced in Germany at that time, but I may be wrong. If right, then it seems reasonable to think the actions were not being produced either. Since the actions were being produced in England, Lindner probably always sourced them from there.

Regards
Ken

Possibly, but Daly was doing the sourcing. 1st he set up his "Factory" in Suhl and cobbled together a pool of mechanics centred around Georg Lindner & family sourcing lines. The once the A & D Body Action was accepted, he handed the design w/ belts & braces to H.A. Lindner to bring to a pinnacle of perfection and set up sourcing & paying the royalty for the APUN thru Auguste Francotte, who had a satellite APUN stamping station for Westley Richards. H.A. Lindner's task were to churn out exceptional sporting arms to the taste of the American Sportsman and his application of his control mark was his seal of approval.


http://www.dogsanddoubles.com/2014/03/auction-alert-a-real-nice-12g-w-c-scott-hammergun/img_0175-2/

Scott lock from 1885, that looks of cheaper manufacture. Note the crosspin has moved rearward. Also the 1870s-1880s saw a transition of hammers of stature that were "in the line of site" to lower profile hammers.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

So, it looks like the hammer gun actions may have all been sourced from England. Really, a "style change".

Back to serial numbers. Does this make sense? It appears that the earliest Scott actions with Scott serial numbers in the five digit range that lack Lindner marks can be attributed to Georg. Then, a serial number change was instituted at some point, with Georg still in control until the 1569-1662 range when we find the use of the first Lindner mark, attributed to Heinrich.

Going from what KG posted, was there a third set of serial numbers instituted associated with the second, or HAL Lindner mark?

I think the info is pretty set on the later A&D guns, it's figuring out these earlier hammer guns that fills the holes in the available information.

2nd H.A. Lindner series was post 1893 rules, more or less, where the Crossed Sidearms surmounted by a Crown was replace by Crossed Sidearms surmounted by the letters HAL & a restart in serialization.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

It would be interesting to know what serial numbers were on the first A&D guns, and which, if any Lindner marks were on them. I'm assuming sometime after 1879, meaning they would carry the second serial number sequencing and be marked with the first Lindner stamp attributed to Heinrich.


Regards
Ken

Ah, I'd say the Lindner control stamp would arrive on the scene around the founding of his concern in 1874 or @ least by the time he took his martial vows in 1877.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Now, if we can just get board members to contribute pictures to validate what we've been discussing. I'd say it's time to start the new Prussian Daly History thread.

Regards
Ken